What all white collar, high paying fields are oversaturated with applicants

Fields like pharmacy, law or an MBA may have been a good career a while ago but my understanding is that the number of people earning degrees in these fields has skyrocketed while job growth hasn’t kept up. In fields like law or MBAs, supposedly its best to not even try unless you go to a top school. With Pharmacy I don’t know if it matters where you go, but full time jobs are harder to find than a couple decades ago.

What other highly educated, prestigious, high paying careers aren’t all they are cracked up to be (mostly due to an oversaturation of qualified applicants, but possibly for other reasons too?)

Pharmacy isn’t white collar. They work for a living.

ROTFLMAO!

And it went from a perpetual shortage, to massive oversaturation, in just a few years.

MBA isn’t a field. It’s a degree that helps you gain entry into fields like finance, investment banking, management consulting, marketing, and whatnot.

I mean I don’t know what to tell you. I got an MBA from a decent, but not Harvard or Wharton school, landing a job as a management consultant in a Big 4 firm in New York back in 2001. It didn’t pan out because of 9/11 and the general economic landscape, but between 2001 and now I’ve had a not atypical, if turbulent and mediocre “management consultant” career of working for a number of big name firms, a few stints in “industry”, some interesting tech companies and startups earning a pretty decent six-figure salary.

To your point, at very few times at my career have I felt I have been working at a company that is “taking off”. Or if I did, it didn’t last long. The highlight of my professional career was probably a firm I worked for from 2004 to 2008. In that time, we were crazy busy with work, I doubled my comp and was promoted up to a management role. But most of the time, I join a company and they are busy for a few months, maybe a year. But then I start seeing people sitting around idle “on the bench”, taking long leisurely lunches because they don’t have work to do, and eventually looking for other jobs.

On few occasions have I ever worked for someone I felt was “visionary” or “competent” at their job. If they were a bit older, they mostly seemed like relics of an age long past. People from a time where all you had to do was graduate college, not fuck up too bad, and you would work for a company for decades. The company would move you around to different branches or locations as your grew with them. Or at worst, you just plateaued and did your thing for the next 20 years. Like my older fraternity alumni who are fucking morons driving Jaguars and whose wives wear $1000 mink coats to football tailgates. Or my dad who all he had to do was get his MBA and decide to take a job with General Electric instead of General Westmoreland and he was set for the rest of his life.

Basically the way I see it, companies treat every job as if it were disposable. My dad, who retired a decade ago, doesn’t comprehend my perspective, thinking that “companies value good people”. I tell him “companies don’t give a shit about people”. They pay lip-service about their people. But at the end of the day, if they don’t need them or their particular skills, they will just get rid of them and go to the market to find replacements with the skills they need. As “management” I have these conversations all the time. You have these developers who are way smarter (or at least way more knowledgeable) than me (and orders of magnitude smarter than the dimwited “resource manager” or HR recruiters) where we basically just call them “resources” and trade them like Pokeman to put in front of some idiot client. And if the client doesn’t like them because their pants woosh when they walk or whatever, they are on the phone to me and I’m on the phone to find a replacement ASAP.

I was interviewing for a job today and the recruiter is like “I noticed you had a lot of jobs” (keeping in mind, my manager from my last job actually referred me). What I didn’t say but thought real loud was “yeah I also fucked a lot of chicks before settling down with your Mom and that worked out for you, didn’t it?”. I get it. Companies don’t want to be worried someone is going to quit after a year or that there isn’t something inherently “wrong” with them - like my inability to suffer idiots. But what guarantee do I have your company isn’t going to get acquired by Amazon next year? Or get hit by a fucking meteor? Or that your bullshit vision for future growth turns out to be bullshit and all this growth you are experiencing in the “collaborate remote shared workspace” field goes away next year when things go back to normal?

I should also point out that my field of “management consulting”, even under the best of circumstances (i.e. plenty of work to do with lots of growth) typically requires long hours and travel as much as 4 days a week for months or years at a time. And it tends to be stressful as most firms tended to evaluate their employees using a “rank and yank” methodology as part of their “up or out” policy. And as I kind of alluded to above, unless you work for McKinsey, Bain or BCG, the majority of big firms like Deloitte, Accenture, CapGemini, Cognizant and so on are trending towards or are already essentially IT outsourcing companies.

I understand, and there are a wide range of fields a person with a J.D. can work too. But my impression is that most/all of those fields are oversaturated with applicants due to an oversupply of law grads. It was my impression that fields that require an MBA are seeing the same thing, an oversupply reshaping the industry.

Yeah, this generational attitude is something I run into too. Older people seem to think its still the 1970s and as long as you show up on time and do your work, you can have a job for life. Its not like that anymore in many industries.

Not only that, but from what I’ve seen even competence doesn’t really get you ahead anymore. I don’t know how to describe it, but it seems like there is an abundance of qualified applicants in a lot of fields, so management ends up picking people for traits that aren’t tied to competence since pretty much everyone is competent. Maybe they like how you look or how you socialize. Or some other dumb trait not related to the job and thats why you get promoted. The days when there was only 1 or 2 qualified applicants is over.

Pretty much. Companies want loyalty from employees but they still want the ability to lay employees off if there is a business shift, or if higher executives just feel like cutting costs. Then they look at you like you did something wrong if you jumped around, but maybe you jumped around since employers have no loyalty and you saw the writing on the wall. Or maybe you liked the company, but for whatever reason they let you go. Again, its a generational thing. The days when shifting jobs meant you were a nightmare to work with and incompetent are over but a lot of older people who still have influence don’t necessarily know that. If anything from what I’ve seen in private industry, the people who are nightmares to work with or incompetent tend to have stable jobs since they are older and got hired on before the rise of permatemping, and the more productive, easier to work with people are the ones who jump around since they have no seniority.

On the topic of OP, I’ve heard nursing is starting to become oversaturated too. Not sure if thats true or not.

I would differentiate nursing and even pharmacist from JD and MBA jobs like corporate law, management consulting, investment banking, venture capital, private equity and hedge funds. The former are actual professions where people provide a real value or service. The later, with perhaps the exception of certain types of lawyers, are largely IMHO, “country club jobs” one aspires to after obtaining a “golden ticket” degree from a top school.

A professor I know was complaining how new chemical engineering grads were getting job offers that paid the same, nominal, as people he graduated with back whenever he graduated. And therefore the economy was bad (this was well pre-COVID.) I pointed out that ChemE departments had grown massively and were outputting graduates at an increased rate that far exceeded the growth in population between then and now.

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a little off topic, but I’m still confused: what does “management consulting” mean? What exactly do you do? Also, what is so stressful about it?

I can see why you have to travel a lot if you’re hired by a company with offices far away.But what do you do while your are there?
I’m guessing that as a consultant, you are a temporary worker, consulting on some specific problem that a company needs you to help solve. Why do they need your services, as opposed to hiring someone in-house, or someone local?

AKA the B Ark.

Helping with mergers, resizing, software changes, implementing management fads, providing on-demand subject matter expertise, market analysis, synergizing the paradigm, rightsizing the core competencies . . .
Sorry I got dizzy at the end there.
ETA:
Making lots of PowerPoint “decks” that get binned and never looked at.
Backing up a decisions someone already made.

The irony of this is that the change in corporate attitudes is itself largely the result of management consultants themselves, who preached the new short-term focused buzzword-laden approach which resulted in companies discarding old-time values and deferred-gratification mentalities like loyalty to employees.

I believe a lot of chemical engineering majors end up in the oil and gas industry, so the number of jobs expands and contract along with the price of oil.

Would Radiology technicians be considered white collar? The field is always over-saturated with new graduates.

I guess I’m counting any field that requires tertiary education (preferably post graduate education) and maybe was once a pathway to a good job but now due to oversaturation is not.

As a management consultant, that sharp useless look is something you have to carefully hone with the most current buzzword bingo vocabulary. Clients need constant re-assurance that the management consultant has their back on providing whatever bullshit cover-up is needed for their series of endless bad decisions that were made before you were hired to come in and and fix. It is your job to quickly assess who the real power brokers are, side with them, and work to undermine and discredit their corporate opposition. You do so by ingratiating yourself as quickly as you can with absolutely everyone. Especially those in the back office who can actually provide you with the data/info that you need. Then, when well entrenched, proceed to cut throats of those who get in the way of your mission.

Then break for lunch.

The afternoon is usually when you get your work done. Those TPS reports won’t generate themselves. And client executives need to have a constantly stream of Magic Quadrant reports at their fingertips. Oh, and don’t forget weekly operational reports, manpower reports, dashboards and senior leadership summaries. Usually they’ll ask for them just before 5pm and expect them on their desk by 8:30am the next day.

For all the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth about shortages of STEM graduates, I haven’t found that it’s particularly easy for mid-career STEM types to find jobs. I mean, there are plenty of listings, but from what I can tell, they’re mostly from places that are some combination of terrible to work at, underpay, or are hopelessly backward in terms of what they actually do. Usually the last two go together as well.

Promotions seem to be completely NOT based on competence. If anything, being competent at some non-general skill means you’ll get stuck doing that, rather than get promoted. And from what I can tell, getting promoted is directly related to your ability to do 3 things: kiss management ass, put the company and your projects ahead of EVERYTHING else, and looking/acting the part. So if you’re an in-shape frat-boy who wears golf shirts embroidered with golf course logos along with your slacks and dress shoes, you have no life outside of work, and you are something of a sycophant, or at best don’t rock the boat, you’re set for a career in management. I mean, you have to meet some baseline competence standard, but being GOOD at what you do isn’t nearly as important as the other stuff. As a matter of fact, being GOOD, and not doing that other stuff is less likely to get you promoted than being mediocre and doing that other stuff. If you’re some combination of dorky/nerdy/geeky, ethnic, overweight, ugly, female, and don’t dress the right way, you’re going to have a much harder time getting promoted.

From what I’ve seen in the recent (within the last 5 years) job market and in reading subreddits for recruiting and jobs in general, there is a STRONG downward push in salaries going on. Even more than in the last 30 years which is often pointed out (that wages have been stagnant). In the last 5, there’s been a huge increase in job postings calling for high expertise and higher degrees for barely over minimum wage. The subreddits show me that this is happening in all white collar professional jobs (I only see the IT jobs when I was job hunting as that’s my general trade).

I think this is a sign (that nobody seems to be picking up on) that nearly all white collar trades that used to be considered well-paying, no longer are and thus are probably saturated. I haven’t heard of one that still offers a high wage, but I’d love if someone pointed me to one to counter my belief.

Edited to add: the only jobs I know about that are still highly paid require a security clearance.

I doubt that is a coincidence, as the jobs requiring a security clearance can’t be sent overseas and can’t be filled by an H1-B visa holder.

A lot of IT jobs went to India but some are coming back due to substandard quality of work. Penny wise and pound foolish.

I get a lot of calls about jobs and in the last 2 years about 80% of the people calling are Indian. Some are even in India but are recruiting for US jobs.