What are my chances of being on the FBI's "watched" list?

With all these threads about Cat Stevens, it brings to mind discussions my SO and I have had in jest about the FBI coming after him after 9-11 because I am East Indian.

Many jests have at the root of them some fear, and I guess there is a tiny twinge here too.

So what are the chances? I’m a U.S. citizen who emigrated (immigrated?) here from India in 1979. I have been back to India four times in my life and the last one was ten years ago. None of my family is Moslem, but nearly my entire family is back in the homeland now. They don’t fly back and forth.

I write letters home often but don’t talk on the phone that much. If you were to watch my life, I am supremely Americanized, but I do watch Hindi movies, listen to music, and still read and write in Hindi (all my letters are in Hindi)?

So what do you think? Don’t get me wrong, I am not really worried…just curious.

Moved to IMHO.

-xash
General Questions Moderator

xash, that’s two of my threads you’ve moded today.

My sincerest apologies for repeatedly posting in the wrong forum.

**Lynn ** likes chocolate, what can I send your way?

Based on what you describe, pretty much zero . However, if you send your family money – espeically through mom-and-pop type neighborhood shops – your chances of ending up on some sort of list would go up a bit. If you send large amounts of money (like $10,000), chances would go up much more. If you travel to “weird” countries, odds are greater, as is the case with ever having attending meetings of political or religous groups that had radical agendas.

Basically, the Government can’t track all of the millions of illegal immigrants that are already in the country, some of whom may be up to no good. Why spend resources tracking someone who doesn’t give any indication whatsoever of being up to no good?

(But I’m sure some Patriot Act paranoids will chime in and say that we are all being tracked by the books we check out from the library…)

:smack: moved

I’m not sure how much this’ll help, but for anecdotal purposes…

My husband is East Indian. I’m your average white American woman. Every single time we go to the airport, I’m always the one who gets stopped and searched, while he seems to sail through security without any problems. My husband has always said that he would actually feel more comfortable if the airport did do racial profiling because between the two of us, he feels that he would be the more likely terrorist suspect.

On the other hand, last year we received a notice from the Missouri Supreme Court stating that they had been monitoring our land-line phone calls, my cell phone, and our electronic transmissions for quite some time, since right after 9/11. Apparently they didn’t find anything: otherwise instead of notifying us after the fact, I’m sure they’d have sent some FBI agents and a swat team instead of a letter. :smiley: It didn’t really scare me too badly - we have nothing to hide, but it did creep me out (plus I started yelling “Bomb!” on the phone at regular intervals - jsut kidding), and obviously there was something (we’re not sure what - perhaps just his “Indian-ness”) that made him a potential terrorist suspect.

My husband has gotten some pretty conflicting messages - not being searched at the airport, yet having our phones and computers tapped. Because of the conflicting messages, I have no idea what sort of criteria they use to put people on the watch list. It seems to me that the FBI is so large that they have several lists of criteria circulating. Either that or they’re just really fucking confused.

No, no, moded works, but you’d probably want to swap the “e” with an apostrophe (mod’d). Of course, if Lynn did it, it’d be admin’d.

And it’s not a General Question because chances are even if there is a factual answer, whoever had it wouldn’t be able to admit to it. Do we have an Feds on the board, btw?

I forget sometimes that GQ is for general questions with *factual * answers, not just general questions with *general * answers.

What evidence do you have that your computers are “tapped?”

Are you positive that you received a notice from the “Missouri Supreme Court” about your phone being monitored? Was that on the letterhead?

A message board with what, 30,000+ members discussing everything, with people from all over the world?

I’d be a bit surprised if they didn’t drop in from time to time. Probably in the form of lurkers but there’s no reason they couldn’t post from time to time as well.

An e-mail list I’ve been on for, oh, 10 years has certainly had FBI on it - both openly and retired and probably active agents. After 9/11 someone with poor English skills signed on from a European country and started asking extremely specific and pointed questions of a suspicious nature. We were discussing how to handle it when an agent popped up and said “It’s taken care of”

(very condensed version of what all happened - don’t want to bore anyone)

Having a government file on you isn’t necessarially doom-and-gloom. When my sister was working for the Department of Defense we know the rest of the family was checked and briefly investigated. Can’t say we were thrilled about it, but even with another sister being a rabble-rousing politcal demonstrator type with some radical politcs didn’t cause a problem. That was all, oh, over 20 years ago. So I know there’s at least one “government file” on me somewhere, and I pity the poor fool who has to read it because I’m sure it’s very b-o-r-i-n-g. Either that, or nearly empty.

As for the East Indian angle - at my local airport our chief flight instrutor and charter pilot was East Indian. After 9/11 he had some trouble with folks getting suspicious of a brown-skinned man with a “funny accent” climbing into airplane cockpits and was intercepted several times in the following couple months. Got to the point of the Feds showing up and saying more or less “Look, we know you, and we know you’re not a problem, but we were told to check things out so here we are again.” This stopped happening after about 6 months when folks were starting to calm down a bit.

I’m sure your average East Indian is getting a little extra scrutiny from time to time, but with a few ignorant exceptions probably not the hardcore suspicion some of the male Muslims I know have had to endure. Of course, one hardcore ignoramus can make your life really unpleasant - I sincerely hope you can avoid them entirely.

On the other hand, even Senator Edward Kennedy has been barred from boarding commercial aircraft on several occassions - certainly not a result of his skin color or religion!

After 9/11, the Feds supposedly did a check on everyone with a pilot’s license in the country - which includes me along with 700,000+ others - looking for terrorists and suspicious characters. Gee, guess now I have two government files. I’m sure that one is really thin and boring, too. In fact, me with my pilot’s license might look more suspicious than a citizen of East Indian origin with no such “terrorist” skills as far as security screening goes.

If you haven’t encountered a problem by now you’re probably in the clear (the occassinal random crazy excepted). You may have already been checked by some agency without your realizing it, and found completely non-threatening.

The Muslim formerly known as Cat Stevens is a nice British boy of Greek descent who converted to Islam and been a strong promoter of a conservative (although not, to my knowledge, fanatical or violent) form of the religion and culture. In the past, prior to 9/11, he has publically said things the US government wasn’t too fond of - such as supporting the call for Saloman Rushdie’s death. He has also publically opposed US involvement in Iraq - a position that the current administration isn’t happy about its own citizens taking, much less a foreigner. He’s not the first celebrity who has been barred entry from the US because of his politcal views. Personally, given his statements condemning both the 9/11 attacks and the more recent Beslan attrocity, and his fundraising on behalf of 9/11 victims I’m inclined to think he’s not working with our current enemies - I mean, the man has never hesistated to speak his mind before. It is certainly possible he is acquainted with some of the Bad Guys, but may not know that individual is a terrorist. After all, the local grocer and the garbage man probably know criminals and terrorists, too, but don’t know they’re terrorists. Bumping into someone at the local mosque once in awhile is not the same as working with them on a secret project. Then again, I don’t have all information in this case.

This doesn’t really add anything to the OP, but it seems a good forum to offer why I couldn’t care less about the Patriot Act.

I own guns that are all legal and I have nothing to bar me from owning firearms. The Feds want to raid my house? Fine, make sure you identify yourselves so you don’t get shot. And please forgive a bullet fired toward you if my wife and I are going at it. Otherwise, I’ll make you a cup of coffee. I have nothing to hide. And I doubt you give a shit what color underwear we have in the drawers.

Want to monitor our bank account? Go for it. The mundane transactions to the gas, phone, cable and insurance companies should bore you in about 4.8 seconds.

Listen in on the phones? (Land and cell) Go right ahead. 90% are my 12 y/o niece calling to bitch to my wife about life. The other 10% consist of setting up pick-up times, getting news of our friend’s sick baby, football pool picks and general family “hey, howyadoin” calls.

Computer? Go for it. If you want to check out how often I check news sites, sports sites, what I post to the Dope, doesn’t really bother me. Hell, twice I’ve called the cable company with questions about settings and as I typed the CS guy followed every keystroke. Hmm…we’re worried about the government and a CS Rep can follow every keystroke at will. Which entity should I be worried about? :dubious:

All who post in this thread will be placed on the FBI watch list.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

Efrem Zimbalist Jr

Please provide details.
How did you receive this letter? By mail? Handed to you? Left attached to your door (kidding)?

Did you contact the appropriate agencies, & inquire?

Did you contact officers of the Court? The Court Clerk?

Did you save the letter?

Could it be fraudulent?

Did it indicate why you had been under observation?

If the airport has been harassing your husband, & you have received this, have you contacted a lawyer, as there could be big bux in this for you?

Yeah, actually it was on their letterhead. We called them to verify because we were worried it might be a hoax, but it wasn’t.

The letter arrived by mail. We did call the MO Supreme Court as I indicated earlier because we were worried it was a hoax. Then we also contacted our local Department of Homeland Security who indicated that, yes, they had authorized the taps or monitoring (I don’t recall what they called it) and that they were letting others in our area know who had also been monitored. We also saved the letter and put it in our safety deposit locker at the bank.

I’m reasonably sure that it’s not fraudulent. Neither my husband nor I are the sort of people who easily fall for things like that, and our immediate reaction to receiving it was “Oh, puleez. Tapped, eh, well, we’ll just see about that…” So we called the Supreme Court and the Dept of Homeland Security, and both agencies verified that, yes, the MO Supreme Court had sent us such a pleading (it was actually a court pleading, not really a letter) with the MO Supreme Court’s seal on it and an official’s signature (I can’t remember which official since it’s in our lockbox, but we called both the official plus used the phone book to find the Supreme Court’s number to cross reference, just in case) and they verified with us that the letter and the tap had been authorized by Homeland Security.

Overlyverbose, I am glad that your situation seems to have been resolved OK.

Thank you all. Like I said, I wasn’t too worried, but I thought it couldn’t hurt to ask.

I don’t have any knowledge of either Arabic or Hindi, but even I can distinguish their written forms as being separate and distinct. I would think the FBI can do at least as well.

This reminds me somewhat of when I was heavily involved in the Irish-American community in Chicago back some years ago when the IRA were more active. Yeah, we knew the IRA was fund-raising in Chicago. We knew there were IRA supporters in the community. We also knew there were various agents of various police and governmental authorities snooping about, too. Meanwhile, my husband was earning a living playing the music and I was studying Irish Gaelic. Oh, my. :eek: Yeah, I’m sure the various cop-types checked us out to some degree. Found really boring white folks and then moved on to the next batch of people.

Don’t give money to charities unless you know who those people really are. Don’t associate with people who advocate violence or secretive habits. Behave yourself, conduct yourself as a good citizen, and odds are you’ll be left alone.

I mean, I didn’t stop eating at my favorite Middle Eastern restaurant, the one with half the signs and menus in Arabic and the Halal butcher working out of a side room, after 9/11/01. I don’t assume I’ll be associated with the Mafia if I eat in an Italian-owned restaurant, either. I don’t assume I’ll be associated with illegal people-smuggling if I eat in Chinatown. I don’t assume every person buying a box-cutter in a hardware store intends to hijack an airplane. I wouldn’t assume a woman writing letters to relatives in India is a terrorist.

What does disturb me is that ordinary citizens seem to be winding up on the “no-fly” list and have no way to clear their names. Heaven forbid we start getting terrorists named “John Smith” and “Tom Johnson” and “David Jones” and the like - half the population will wind up banned from the airlines. And I am NOT happy with how the Patriot Act - which was supposed to be used for anti-terrorism - seems to be tapped most often for ordinary criminal offenses. Not that I have a problem with catching criminals, but it starts to feel like bait-and-switch and that gives me the willies. The problem is NOT the inconvenience of one or two people - it’s the inconvenience of many. and the list seems to grow daily. But it seems to be happening as often to white grandmas from Iowa as to any other ethnic group.

I don’t think being East Indian or writing in Hindi puts you into a markedly higher risk group for being singled out. They’ve checked pilots (as I’ve already said), hazmat-licensed drivers, bus drivers, farmers who by certain types of fertilizer and diesel fuel (99.99% of which is purchased for perfectly legitimate purposes), gun collectors, and lots of other folks in various groups, regardless of race or religion.

Yet.

Wait 5 years.

There’s no doubt in my mind I’m on The List[sup]TM[/sup]. Not only do I own politically incorrect firearms (FAL assault rifle, .50 BMG rifle, etc.), and have purchased over 12,000 rounds of military ammo using my credit card, but I operate a citizen’s militia unit. We even have a website. The fact that the Southern Policy Law Center (a “watchdog” organization for patriot groups) listed our group in one of their reports gives me little doubt I’m on a list.

Crafter_ Man, you scare me.