I believe that was your opinion. If that is not what you meant when you posted “I am sure that there are many that would claim that “low income housing” has nothing to do with race.” in a thread about hidden dog whistles, then you didnt convey what you meant at all.
Perhaps you can clarify exactly what you meant?
The liberals weren’t wooshed by the OK sign thing, a fact with is objectively and transparently obvious. You just have to step back and understand what is going on.
4chan assholes decided to make the OK sign into a racist symbol. It is not a ‘fake’ racist symbol, and any claims to that effect show a failure to understand how symbols work. When a convicted racist in cuffs makes the OK symbol, he’s not being ironic - and even if he was trying to be ironic, he’s still really making the symbol, with the intent that it be interpreted as a racist symbol. That is not somrthing they are ‘fake doing’ - because you can’t fake making a symbol you’re making, and you can’t fake the intended meaning to be different from what you actually intend. It’s literally impossible, because of how symbols, all symbols, work.
So, you have racists genuinely making the OK sign into a racist sign. The liberals become aware of this, and start correctly interpreting it as a racist sign when the racists mean it as a racist sign. They stopped being wooshed by it.
If you really don’t understand this, you’ve been wooshed.
Please identify the ‘they’ at least initially so the reader can know to whom the ‘they’ are you are attributing ideas or actions.
You used ‘they’ 3 times in this post. I have no damn idea who the ‘they’ is. Kind of important.
By “they” he means white supremacists.
He’s making a “Hitler ate sugar” argument, while demonstrating a spectacular failure to understand how symbols work.
To elaborate on why this is a stupid argument, we have to look for what these ‘symbols’ are actually symbolizing, both in the racists’ intent in using them, and the public’s interpretation thereof.
When the racists wave the US flag, they’re not saying the flag represents racism, they’re saying that the flag represents how they are true americans. Observers correctly interpret the symbol as being intended to mean that the shitbags waving it erroneously think they’re true americans.
This shirt thing I’ve never heard of, so I can’t infer what the idiots mean by it. I know if I saw it, I’d think they were elderly men who were wearing their usual clothes, since that’s who I usually see wearing hawaiian shirts. Now, there’s a possibility that the humanoid trash wish to turn hawaiian shirts into a racist symbol, but that’s not something I’ve ever heard. (Perhaps the pitch is too high for me?)
Camo, on the other hand, is clear: the racists wish to convey that they’re soldiers - real men. Observers interpret the camo as meaning that they’re soldier wannabees with masculinity complexes and small penises.
The thing to note, of course, is that (with the possible exception of the shirts) the racists are using the existing symbolism of the things, not trying to change or co-opt the existing symbolic meanings. So these are not comparable to what racists did regarding the OK sign.
‘Dog Whistles’ are a way to accuse someone of being a racist while not being able to find anything they said that is actually racist. So flashing an ‘ok’ sign is a dog whistle, because some 4chan assholes pranked the left with it. But even after finding out it was a prank, people used it to accuse some people of racist dog whistling while giving others a pass.
The ‘dog whistle’ claim almost always comes after you’ve already decided someone is racist. Then you go looking for things to ‘prove’ it.
But as the saying goes, if you keep hearing dog whistles, perhaps you are the dog.
When interpreting a symbol (or anything, really), the goal is to try to figure out what is meant by the symbol. So, for example, if somebody says, “Hi, I’m a racist”, then a person can employ their understanding of the symbols of english speech and conclude that the words they say might imply that they are a racist.
Similarly, when a person who has just been convicted of racist acts flashes the OK sign, as person could employ their understanding of hand symbols and say, “I have arbitrarily decided that that OK thing was a prank and is NEVER a genuine racist symbol, and thus conclude that this person who is going to jail is really happy about going to jail.”
Yep, interpreting a symbol really does require one to draw from an awareness of the situation and person involved. And you are 100% right, when we know for a stone-cold fact that a person is a racist, that fact does indeed factor into our interpretation of their words and actions.
I’m sure there are. However, I’m sure HE means “You white people in the suburbs won’t be bothered by poor and/or black people anymore”
Maybe I can just hear the whistle?
Probably. A “dog whislte” is not some magical statement that can only be heard by racists.
If you are engaged in the world, and not willfully ignorant, then it is pretty clear. The majority of people are not as engaged with the world, and it is not as clear.
You can see how a poster here has already stated that it not only doesn’t have anything to do with race, but that he finds it offensive that I think that it does. That’s the whole point, plausible deniability, and the ability to respond to those who point it out with gaslighting and making them out to be the unreasonable ones.
Same as when white supremicists adopted the OK symbol. Sure, it has an innocent meaning, but they gave it new meaning by using it as a racist symbol. That others then decided to be trolls that pretended to be white supremicists just made it all the more deniable for their allies.
And yes, even though there are more white people living in low income housing than black people, if you said, “low income housing” to most suburban white people, the first thing that they are going to think of is a black neighborhood.
Or maybe, just maybe- he is really using as the OK symbol- can you prove otherwise?
And no, 4Chan decided to fool Liberals into believing it is a racists symbol. It is only a racist symbol if we let them get away with it. If we ignored their foolishness, it wouldnt be- and it’s not too late.
White Supremacists, which shoudl have been clear from the context.
I mean it’s not like they’re wearing all black clothes which proves beyond any doubt they’re Black Bloc Anarchists!
CMC
I’m not impressed by the argument that a person makes the OK sign because they’re happy to be sent to jail, because that’s incredibly stupid and I honestly don’t believe it’s possible to argue that sincerely.
So yes. It’s proven.
Also, not that more evidence is needed, it’s worth noting that quite a few of these racists are flashing the OK sign upside-down - something that is never done with the classic OK sign. Yes, some racists will claim that they’re playing the circle game, even in contexts where they’re not soldiers or any other person who could possibly be playing the circle game, but that is both obviously false and, of course, really stupid.
This is like arguing that if we stop talking about confederate flags, they’ll stop representing the confederacy. Like if we stop noticing swastikas they’ll revert to their ancient Buddhist meanings.
In other words, it’s yet another incredibly stupid argument. No, there is nothing I can do at all to stop a racist from using the OK sign to signal to other racists that they’re a racist. If two racists both decide that the OK sign means “I’m a racist and proud of it and look how I can get away with flashing our new co-opted white power sign”, then I can’t stop them from believing that, and it’s stupid to claim otherwise. All I can do by ignoring the racists is to make them gleeful that they’re fooling the libtards.
And this may surprise you, but I’m not overly invested in making racists happy. Shocking, I know.
Maybe because he is thinking he will be OK with the white supremacists gang there? Got a link as to who it is and why?
Hardly “proven”- and ONE guy misusing a sign doesnt prove that now everyone who flashed Ok is a racist. I can give you a pic of Obama give the Ok sign.
Nonsense- the CSA battle flag always and only stood from racism from it’s inception.
Just ignore them.
I never made that claim,and we dont like taking arguments from other threads here with some sort of grudge.
You never made what claim?
We? Is that a mouse in your pocket or a Black Bloc Anarchist?
CMC
I actually went looking for the pic, which I have indeed seen, but I don’t remember the asshole’s name and my google fu is weak.
You are invited not to trust that I have seen what I have seen. I don’t really care if you think I’m dishonest.
And I’m getting tired of your arguments that are, all-too-consistently, so absurd that I feel like I’m degrading myself answering them seriously. No, it is not possible that he was happily looking forward to prison, and it is not possible that he was doing anything other than employing the rebranded-as-racist OK sign. You insult both of us when you dig this hole deeper.
Nobody has argued that everybody who flashes the OK sign is a racist, and you know it. Similarly, not everyone who says the word “fuck” is talking about actual copulation - but sometimes people are, and you can generally tell from context. It honestly isn’t that hard - and in a lot of cases, it’s pretty damned obvious when the racists are being racist.
Way to completely fail to understand the point. Some words and symbols have multiple meanings. And the OK symbol now has a second definition, thanks to fuckheads using it to mean something else. Your baseless denials don’t stop racists from using the symbol they way they want to. And they want to use it to mean racism. It sucks, and I’d stop it if I could, but I can’t and neither can you, not even with the magical power of terrible argument.
To what end? Pretending reality isn’t happening gains nothing.
No, it doesnt, because that is not how it is commonly used. You say there is a picture, which you cant produce, and that the picture is a a white supremacist- who you dont know- and he was going to prison- but you dont know for what- and then i am supposed to accept from your bad remembrance of one picture that the OK sign is now a white supremacist sign. Since of course morons at 4chan can overrule four centuries of common usage. They fooled you tho, bro. Which is likely why you are so angry about this. You were whooshed, and now you are mad, insisting that you werent whoosed and that you are right!
And yes, I found in 3 minutes of googling who you are talking about- the Christchurch mosque shootings killer (whom i am not gonna name). Who later said he just meant he was Ok, and since that was in NZ, and " bad OK"likely hadnt gotten into common conversation at that time- maybe. Mind you, he is insane, who the fuck knows ? (Oh, and his Ok had to be inverted due to his hands being in cuffs like they were. )
Oh and from theJDL:
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvIT5BRCqARIsAAwwD-QYmsfLX_DKjO2YJSBfQw7nGao__RdX68xEIGjqCi7I3AAMCfsGLfEaAoT9EALw_wcB
The overwhelming usage of the “okay” hand gesture today is still its traditional purpose as a gesture signifying assent or approval. As a result, someone who uses the symbol cannot be assumed to be using the symbol in either a trolling or, especially, white supremacist context unless other contextual evidence exists to support the contention. Since 2017, many people have been falsely accused of being racist or white supremacist for using the “okay” gesture in its traditional and innocuous sense.
Other, similar-seeming hand gestures have also been mistakenly assumed to have white supremacist connotations as a result of the “okay” hoax. One of these is the so-called “Circle Game,” in which people attempt to trick each other into looking at an okay-like hand gesture made somewhere below the waist.
So you spend a paragraph telling me I’m imagining the picture and then you spend a second paragraph telling me that you found the picture and it’s real after all. Imagine that. I don’t even have to refute your arguments; you do it yourself.
I’m not sure there’s any point in trying to point you in the direction of reality any more - and there certainly isn’t tonight. Have a nice time, and remember, the swastika represents the footprints of Buddhism and nothing else, because it’s absolutely impossible for a group to take an existing symbol and use it to mean something else. If anybody ever tells you the nazis weren’t buddhists you’ve been whooshed.