What are some of the mindsets of poor people that keeps them poor?

In My Humble Opinion
121

You are definitely being over-simplistic. I tell you I dropped out of school and tended my dying mother on my own and you blame my downfall on having unprotected sex.
It didn’t even cross your mind that the whole being molested and living with my dying mother, tending her alone because nobody else cared enough to. . . it just boggles my mind how unwavering some people are on blaming people without acknowledging that some stuff just isn’t our fault. I was fourteen, staying up all night trying to create diet plans Mom would stick to, rubbing her swollen legs and holding her as she cried. I had 36 pills that needed distributing every day when she lost her vision, and then again when she started losing her memory. Did it not once occur to you that stressing this part of my life…the time when most teens are out socializing and making those connections … isn’t “making excuses”, it’s what *possibly *HAPPENED that caused me to veer off a path to success? I’m sorry if I’m snapping but it really frustrates me when people make assumptions based on stereotypes.

My little girl was the best thing that’s ever happened in my life. Yeah I could have aborted her but I’m glad I didn’t. She didn’t cause me to be poor, or my having her didn’t cause me to be poor. I was poor already. Having her didn’t keep me from getting a formal education. If anything it encouraged me both times I started (but failed, I failed, but not because of her.)Her care wasn’t that expensive because my grandparents were her sitters and we worked as a family, three generations taking care of each other. After my grandfather died there was a small fund set up for her and another lump sum when she graduated. The payments weren’t much at all, enough for clothes other necessities. I didn’t even know until he was gone because we never talked about money. There were burial plots paid for, life insurance we never knew about. Sadly none of them taught me how to be financially secure, they just taught me to pay my bills and be nice to people. I pay my bills. I’m just not moving ahead. I move up a little then something brings me back down again.

I talked to my SO last night about setting goals. He said he doesn’t see how we can even do that until I find work or “invent something”. But I’ve been thinking on it. I could go back to school. But then what do I study? I have anxieties and phobias out the wazoo so it limits my options. Still thinking on it though.

122

I’m curious as to what joining a church at this point is going to do to help Rushgeekgirl. (She seems to be getting guidance and direction right here from SD posters.) Do you mean help with food and rent? Someone to occasionally watch her disabled child, if need be? Counselling? Would they find her a job? Pray for her? What church, anyway, and how should she go about it? I’m asking because I’m trying to imagine what would happen if somebody in her dire straits just walked in off the street and asked to have a meeting with the priest. What happens then?

123

Yes, I agree, based on my experience of growing up and teaching at a community college in one of the poorest counties in NC. The only thing I would challenge about your list is that men are subject to those failings as well.

Many of the people I’ve known or worked with who were seriously caught in the poverty trap had a number of factors at play in their lives. For example, they often had no clue what their options were and no idea how to get help. They tended to lack personal organizational skills and frequently missed deadlines when applying for crucial things like academic financial aid or housing assistance. If they managed to accumulate what they felt was a decent sum of money (from, say, a few hundred to a few thousand dollars) they would immediately blow it on stuff that did nothing to get them out of their situation, like a no-name living room suite that would fall apart after six months. The pressure to keep up with the Joneses is just as strong in low-income areas as it is among the wealthy; the only thing that’s different is the scale of money spent.

We had a lot of students who didn’t understand what it took to be successful in school - they thought they could just show up for a couple of weeks each semester and still pass. And as you mentioned in #2 and #3 above, they had trouble with the idea of studying for two to four years before seeing a tangible result from their work in the form of a diploma (This mindset absolutely is not limited to people living in poverty, of course). And we had quite a few students who turned their lives around - sometimes against incredible odds - by planning wisely, making sacrifices and working hard.

However, the four things jlzania listed often create a concatenation that not only keeps poor people poor but can also cause better off people to fall into a poverty trap. One of my oldest friends - we’ll call him “Joe” - is a perfect example of this - he was born into an upper middle class family and lacked for nothing, but still elected to drop out of high school in favor of running with a tough crowd in the poorest part of town. Joe ended up in two failed marriages, both with women who never made it past eighth grade and had trouble finding even minimum-wage jobs. Thanks to a healthy dose of #4 above, Joe felt like he couldn’t do any better in his choice of partners and wanted to get married so he wouldn’t be lonely. He ended up fathering three kids even though he couldn’t adequately provide for one. Despite this, all of his disposable income was spent on useless shiny things that caught his eye. He was barely making it as as short-haul truck driver when someone he knew falsely accused him of a crime. Long story short, because Joe knew nothing about his legal rights, he let the detectives railroad him into a bogus confession so they could close the case. :smack: He couldn’t afford bail or a decent lawyer so he went to jail until the person recanted the accusation. In the meantime his second wife was unable to care for the kids on her own, so she left him to move in with her parents. Joe was too stubborn (or proud) to accept much help from his own folks. I think he let them pay for some of his legal bills, but that was it. Talking to him now, you would never guess that he came from a privileged background. Due to having low self-esteem, no education, poor planning skills and high impulsiveness, he stacked the deck against himself. That’s not the only riches-to-rags story that I’ve witnessed, either. It’s sad, but as jlzania said, how can you help people who don’t want to be helped?

124

Many churches have some kind of community outreach program in place for people who are in great need. Sometimes they can only provide emergency food, clothing and shelter; sometimes they either have their own job program or they are partnered with organizations that have them. If they have the right kind of funding, some can provide or find long-term shelter, such as the Episcopalian center in my rural NC hometown. It really depends on the church.

125

Too bad Crafter_Man was telling her to join a church so that she could learn some “guidance and direction on how to make smart decisions” like he has. Offering actual help like you did wasn’t a part of it. He reminds me of the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live.

126

Oh, I’m sure of it. I just have no experience with American education at all, so I used the system I’m familiar with. I didn’t mean to make a comparison, I just wanted to point out that sometimes, all the opportunities in the world aren’t going to help, because people don’t know how to use them.

I just assumed there was some limit on who could loan money for school in America, since people on this forum sometimes mention “qualifying for student loans” and such phrases. Ignorance fought, then.

127

Oh shit. I’m sorry to hear that. I hope things start getting better for you soon.

128

Rushgeekgirl: I’m sure this will upset you, but I would not be doing you a favor by side-stepping the truth.

You appear to have a victim mentality. You believe “bad things” happen to you. You believe the bad things are keeping you poor. You believe ***other ***things (bad things and bad circumstances) control your life.

You might think this is *really really *the case for you. But in reality it is a mentality. The truth is that bad things and bad circumstances are not keeping you poor. Your mentality is keeping you poor.

As long as you retain the “it’s-not-my-fault, bad-things-happen-to-me” mentality, you will probably remain poor.

129

Except for the fact I am not religious. I’m Agnostic. :wink:

At any rate, I am wondering if any advice given to **Rushgeekgirl **(or the millions who are like her) is all for naught.

It’s been my experience that offering guidance to people who are ***chronically ***poor has a success rate close to 0%. I don’t think it is something that can be taught. I believe it is ultimately a mentality (or “mindset” as stated in the OP) that keeps people poor. Nothing is their fault; they believe they are victims, and they believe they have lived through worse circumstances than wealthier people.

This mentality, combined with making poor decisions/doing dumb things, is a one way ticket to poverty.

130

This is a slight hijack, but felt like it was somewhat pertinent to the discussion…

I work for an advertising agency placing media buys on TV and radio stations around the country. One of our clients is a major check-cashing/Pay Day Loan company.

We are directed by the client to advertise in “lower class” programs such as Judge shows, Maury, Jerry Springer, etc. We also only advertise during the day to better reach unemployed people that are sitting at home watching TV. Also, when choosing which radio stations to use in a market (we only have the budget to use two or three stations max in each market) we have to ask the stations for research on their listeners to find the best way to reach people making under $24,000 per year. Also, they want us to target women and African Americans when possible.

Every time I have to do something for this client I feel my soul darkening a little. It honestly makes me so uncomfortable that if the job market was better, and I could afford to, I’d resign over it.

131

Rushgeekgirl, I hope you’re doing better.

You have – and have had – a lot to have to deal with and I think you deserve some kudos for doing the best you could, the very best you could.

Reading your posts, what I get is not so much a lack of ambition but rather at least a mild depression. Which is to be expected with having to live amidst so much adversity with such limited choices.

Being depressed means you often can’t get out of your own way or see things clearly or see positive alternatives.

Not trying to diagnose you here, IANAD – and none of what I’ve said is an excuse for anything. But it is a potent reason.

This thread was brought to moderator attention. Someone asked “Can’t the Dopers do something to help Rushgeekgirl, help other people on the board who are having problems?” And we’re not against it – Dopers helping Dopers is a beautiful thing and we’d like to help facilitate this as much as we can.

So I’m hijacking this thread to ask the Dopers – What can be done to help Rushgeekgirl and others?

Anyone who doesn’t want to discuss this publicly can send me a PM or [EMAIL=“TubaDiva@aol.com”]email and I’ll work with you anonymously.

Thanks.

132

Instead I’m going to move this into a thread of its own in MPSIMS.

I’ll link to this thread from there.

133

While he’s being just a little oversimplistic by stating that the whole course of your downfall is on unprotected sex, it’s plain that it had a lot to do with it. All decisions have consequences. I’ll be completely and utterly unjudgmental here. You’ll regard it as being heartless, but remember, economics is heartless. You can choose to listen to your heart or not. It’s valid choice amongst a sea of valid choices, and it has its consequences. So, the first thing you could have done it given your daughter up for adoption.

Not relevant economically.

A choice you made. Remember, objectively speaking, this didn’t “happen to you”; you made the decision to care for your mother rather than pursue economic interests.

But that happened when you were a legal dependant. Other than some teenagers who have summer or part-time jobs, that’s not really relevant to the choices you’ve made since attaining independence.

Ah, yes, you’re my mother. God knows I love her, but there’s still this huge, gaping hole in my compassion for her because she used anxieties and phobias as excuses for doing nothing with her life. So I’ll verge away from the purely objective, economic point of view, and do this: Tip 1: study anything at all. You’d be at the undergraduate level, and you’ll have time to make up your mind and find out what interests you academically. There’s also no dishonor in going to a trade school if there’s something that you know already interests you. Tip 2: Since I’m assuming you can’t yet afford to go to a professional to help you deal with you anxieties and phobias, try the self-help section of your library. Until you can stop externalizing your problems, you will continue to have the mindset of someone that keeps him poor.

134

I’ve always said the rich envy the poor far more than the poor envy the rich.

135

As if I hadn’t thought of getting a self-help book. Good grief.

And being molested by my father at six years old wouldn’t possibly have contributed to low self-esteem and anxiety? Nah. That couldn’t possibly have been what it was. It had to have been stupidity and laziness, clearly. I must have surely spent some time at a casino, or blown a month’s pay on cocaine or spent all my savings when the carnival came to town.

I wish I’d never said a thing on this board. Really. All I wanted was to shed a little light on how some people may be poor through ways that didn’t involve drugs or alcohol or whatever. What happened to me when I was fourteen, being trapped with a sick parent and not knowing how to get her help was not my fault and none of you are going to make me feel like it was. It was not my choice to live like that. I loved my mother but goddamn, can you imagine being fourteen and having those responsibilities? I’m guessing no because if you had, you’d know the feeling of sitting by your mother’s bed listening to her raspy breathing as she slept. You’d know about working at a smelly ass fish restaurant at fifteen just to make sure you have money enough to pay for meds, and rushing home not to go out with your friends but to check to see if your mother is still breathing.

Despite being poor I have accomplished a few things I’m proud of in my life. I am actually good with money when I have it, but more importantly I’m blessed with good friends, a loving partner and two wonderful loving children. In my family I’m the go-to person when people need a friend just to listen. If I can help anyone in any way I gladly do it. I’m not going around blaming this or that or refusing to accept my responsibility. But I refuse to keep silent when I know my situation was just as bad before I had my oldest daughter. She was the little light the kept me on an honest path, she was never a stumbling block. So perhaps some of you can see why I reject the notion that she was where my life must have taken a down-turn.

I am not a victim of anything other than having to deal with a lot of family illnesses. Whether you’d prefer to cling to your assumptions or not, I KNOW my life because I’ve lived it. I am not a stupid woman. I do lack ambition career-wise. I do have a lot of anxiety and more than a few phobias but I’ve always ALWAYS worked, from age fifteen until five years ago. I’ve always been a good employee too. I didn’t call in, always accepted any responsibility I was offered, and gladly took on any extra. I saw promotions and raises and made what I hope is a positive impression on the people I’ve worked for and with.

And even as I said I take responsibility for my mistakes, I’m STILL looked own on here and treated like I should be ashamed of myself by some.

And Balthisar, I may be LIKE your mother, but there’s one difference that I find glaring. My daughter would never be so condescending and obnoxious when someone is simply offering a look into their life.

My GOD this is why I just sometimes think it’s best never to discuss my life on this board. I just thought it would HELP but some people really just don’t want to know, they just want to smirk and act like if everyone would just work as hard as they do, nobody would ever be poor.

I guess now I’ll be just like someone else’s mom with my “finger wagging” and more eyes will roll and poor ol’ Cyndi will be guilty again of somehow playing the victim. But you know what? All I’m trying to say is, sometimes we find other things more valuable than money. Some of the points suggested in the OP were ignorant. No offense but they were. And as soon as someone offered a suggestion that doesn’t belittle the poor we’re redirected back to the topic, which is clearly what STUPID IRRESPONSIBLE things do the dumbass poor people do to keep ourselves poor. Direct deposit. Yeah that’s one of those things that kept everyone on the planet poor before it was invented. And we all know poor people are stupid since they don’t value an education. Plus they probably smoke and drink and waste all their extra on the lottery! Stupid poor people!

So stupid they couldn’t possibly know why, or how it started. So let the smart rich person tell us, and if we disagree, well we’re just playing the victim. Well hell I’m probably just jealous of you all.

136

Rushgeekgirl, I’m glad you posted your experiences. 'Cuz we need different perspectives here, and it would such a boring place if everyone had the same issues and life experiences.

Even though you are financially poor, it sounds like you are truly wealthy in other respects. Kudos to you and keep up the good fight!

137

Wow I hadn’t even seen this post when I wrote my last one.

No, you haven’t offered anything I haven’t already considered. What’s funny is I AM part of two different religious groups who help the homeless and the immigrants in Memphis. I haven’t been on the receiving end because there are people who are much, much worse off than me and I’d like to think despite being poor I can still help out.

What have you offered anyway? Your insistence that I accept that your opinion about my life is right? All I argued with you about is your idea that having a baby made me poor when I was already poor and in a bad position. I’d dropped out, my first huge mistake. I did it because I wanted to work more hours. You know…to get AHEAD. Mistake or no, it paid the bills at the time and made sure my mother was taken care of for 11 years, from her first bout with viral pneumonia, through cancer and congestive heart failure. I was there for her, and that did matter to me more than getting ahead financially.

But no, burying the three closest family members after tending them for years alone couldn’t possibly be my problem. It has to be because I got knocked up. That’s the only thing you could possibly accept. Mental and emotional issues holding me back? Couldn’t be possible. Probably making all that up anyway since ya know mental illnesses are so fashionable these days. Besides we all know people with phobias and anxiety are really just shirking their financial responsibilities. All you have to do is find yourself a self-help book or go to a counselor-- problem solved! Otherwise just suck it up, buttercup.

Look, I have made plenty mistakes in my life. Most recently falling for an illegal immigrant. If I’d known then…well I don’t know if it would have changed things because other than that he’s fucking amazing. I take full responsibility for dropping out of college twice. I completed a course at a tech school too. Amusingly it was a six month course on medical office skill-building, including Lotus 123 and IIRC, the one of the earliest versions of Wordperfect. Not exactly helpful to my financial issues now. Everything that happened after the 15 years I spent caring for those people is my fault, completely. It’s been a wild, mostly fun ride with few regrets. No way do I regret my girls.

However, I won’t accept what isn’t true. I did not play lotteries, go to casinos, party on any drug except occasional pot at a party…and parties have been few and far between for me. I do not give money to religious shows, I don’t have a problem with direct deposit; actually I LOVED it. When I worked for the school system that’s how we were paid. I’ve maintained a bank account for around 20 years without ever having an overdraft. I never lived beyond my means, or maxed out credit cards. I’ve never gone to a check-cashing office except to send money to a relative with Western Union. For most of my life I’ve been “working poor”. I made too much for any government assistance and that, to me, is a good thing.

Not to make this all about me, I KNOW plenty others with similar stories. Some of them overcame obstacles, some went another path, some failed. Unlike a few of my old friends, at least I didn’t end my own life in despair.

Above all, I’m not asking anyone here to take care of me. When financial assistance was offered to me here I said no thank you because I’ll be damned if I’m the board charity case. The offers were in no way insulting and I really, really appreciate it but I’d rather someone do a micro loan to Kiva or to Bill’s animal charity. Or closer to me personally, Workers Interfaith Network. They all do good stuff.

138

Remember, Rushgeekgirl, I’m being purely objective. I don’t know you, but I probably have friends like you. But one can’t be so direct with friends, and what you’re asking for here isn’t friendship, but solid, hard facts. Nothing that I’ve said has been judgmental, but purely neutral. That’s not something you’re able to be, because you’re in the situation.

For example this statement of yours. I’m not calling you an unambitious loser. Those are your own words. It’s part of the reason you can’t get ahead. That’s not a judgmental statement, but a simple fact.

I hope you’re not inferring that from me. I’m just being logical.

I’m not sure what was condescending or obnoxious. Everything that I mentioned contributes to your being (in the American sense) “poor.” Getting over those obstacles would improve your chances of no longer being poor. Never once did I call you a “loser,” “lazy,” or anything like that.

Well, telling you things won’t help you. You’ve got to act on logic and your financial interests, and judge what’s important to you. As I’ve so oft repeated, that’s not judgmental; it’s simple. You’re choosing to work hard, but not to work hard in the things that would elevate you from poverty. It’s not “hard work” that makes the difference; it’s where you apply that hard work.

Bingo. You’ve made that choice.

139

Rushgeekgirl: The hardships you’ve experienced are not what are keeping you poor. While it’s true the care you’ve given your family members and the poor decisions you’ve made haven’t help your situation, countless people have lived through ***far ***worse circumstances and have not ended up poor.

Your lack of motivation, poor attitude, and “victim mentality” are what are keeping you poor.

If you wish to remain poor, then don’t change a thing.

140

I second this! It takes courage to share such personal things with strangers, but that’s the only way people will ever get a better understanding of how actual peoples’ lives actually work. Thank you.