However it might sound, it’s wrong on both counts.
You’re offended by “gaijin?” Not a single foreigner I know here personally (yeah, anecdote /= data, but if there were even one person it would change my perception) is offended by that term. Or at least by that term alone. It’s all in how you use it, I suppose. If some old dude at an izakaya looks at me and barks “Gaikokujin dame!” as I walk in, I’m going to be a lot more offended than if my Japanese friends talk about gaijin issues.
I dunno, maybe Aomori is just a lot more friendly than where you live, but I don’t get a lot of overt anger/rudeness up here.
I’ve been here since I was 27. I’m now almost 40 so I’ve seen some changes. Language is a funny thing though, and if you check wikipedia “gaijin”, you’ll see that there are people who think it’s not a neutral term.
Both people and birds from NZ are called kiwi. Why can’t a fruit also hold that title? Is it just a question of “we named it first, you have to call it that?” Kiwi has become a word in the states to refer to a fruit. Are you going to go the the Dominican Republic and tell people that in the US “mulatto” is offensive and thus the entire country has to stop using it? You can say that in NZ, it’s offensive and that people shouldn’t use it there, but to try to shut down its use worldwide ignores how language evolves.
I didn’t say that there weren’t those people, and your 13 years here has certainly given you more experience than my 2. I just got the impression that for the majority of foreigners it wasn’t all that offensive. Maybe I’m wrong; maybe it divides along the lines of people who had to endure more racism in the past compared to now (Japan is progressing, slowly [I know you know, but for those playing along at home: seatbelts must be worn in the backseats of cars? 2008, check. Tobacco machines now regulated by ID swipe cards? 2008, check. Fire detectors must be installed in houses? 2008, check.]). Maybe it’s comparable to “whazzup ma nigga” and “fuck you nigger.”
On a side note, is there anything funnier than “gaijin-san?”
Why is it such a big deal to you to call it a kiwi? There are responses here that calling the little furry thing a “kiwi” range from being mildly amused at your ignorance to resigned annoyance - why can’t you call it by the name that was coined after the hybridisation was done?
After all, the bird and the people had claim to the word long before the fruit was marketed.
I’m not going to address Mulatto, because I know nothing about the origins of the word, the people or the culture.
As to language evolving - yes it does, but not always for the better. When did the word “nigger” make its way into the American lexicon - was that a good change?
What about phrases like Dutch Courage, going Dutch, Indian Giver? I understand that these are all, at the least culturally insensitive if not outright offensive. Is it ok that I use them anyway on the basis that "language evolves and “it’s what we call it”?
As mentioned already, the use of “kiwi” for the fruit is so widespread that we aren’t exactly going to be ranting and raving everytime we see it. But once the difference has been explained to you, couldn’t you at least have the manners and “good breeding” to use what is considered the correct term?
Maybe because it’s referring to something neutral, ie a fruit. Dutch courage implies that the Dutch are drunks. Indian giver indicates that the Indians make bad deals. I use “going Dutch” because I didn’t realize that had a negative connotation. A fruit is just a fruit. Maybe if you can show me that it denegrates the NZ people at all I might take your objection more seriously.
It’s annoying because we identify ourselves (by and large) as Kiwis. Kiwis are people. Fruit are not people.
Somebody might say - “wow, Kiwis were cheap in the supermarket today”
So wow - now they are selling my compatriots from the local store? That’s not in the least annoying?
And BTW - a fruit is “neutral” as you put it, but a people are not. What if I started calling molerats “Americans” - that wouldn’t be the least annoying to, ya know actual Americans?
You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in the USA and in Canada, “kiwi” may refer to the fruit. Get over it.
Your version of English is not the single authoritative version. Sorry to burst your bubble.
But you’re not complaining about that. You’re complaining about what people call a damned FRUIT. I will be sure not to call people from New Zealand “kiwifruit.”
The word here for the fruit is “kiwi.” It’s not wrong. It’s Canadian English, the same way we say “tuna” when a lot of Americans say “tuna fish,” or we say “sweater” when Britons say “jumper.” We have lots of words that are different from the ones you use. That’s the way English works. If you want to call a hockey puck an “icedisk” it’s not going to bother me.
Yeah? Well that’s about as appropriate as me saying
You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in New Zealand we refer to Americans as smegma. Get over it
Or maybe
You realise there are different dialects of English, right? And that in these different dialects certain words have different meanings, right? Well, in New Zealand we call all Arabs"terrorist" - get over it.
Look. its really not that big of a deal. We are not going go railing through the streets or anything like that to make a change. We, and be we I mean the vast majority of New Zealanders (I think this is a pretty safe assumption given the sampling on the board so far) don’t like the fruit to be called a kiwi. Is that not reason enough for a change?
Calling the little furry fruit a Kiwi is not perjorative in and of itself. However once you are informed that the “people” (yeah I know, we are not a race per se) who identify as “Kiwis” don’t like it I would have thought that good manners would mandate a change in your behaviour.
The English slang term “seppos” for Americans has mildly insulting origin (Yanks - Septic tanks) so what? I figure when they burned our capital to the ground they earned the right to permanently treat Americans as a collective annoying younger brother.
I’m amazed that you liken the addition or subtraction of the word “fruit” as an insult comparable to describing others as smelly objectionable bodily secretions. To each their own, I suppose.
Rhyming slang doesn’t really work that way - a phone is a dog n’ bone, and not because a phone is in any way like a dog with a bone, but because it rhymes.
Come on, you can’t really expect that the person who chose “septic tank” wasn’t thinking that it had no kind of negative connotation at all. Yank also rhymes with “please and thanks,” but Americans aren’t called “pleasers.”
I think, perhaps, you may be getting slightly overworked over what name we in Canada/US use for a fruit. And expecting an entire country to switch from call in it kiwi to kiwifruit just to be polite to you is a bit much, even if we all really were Dudly Do-Rights.
And reading your posts in this thread doesn’t exactly fill me with the desire to be polite to you.
[I know you know, but for those playing along at home: seatbelts must be worn in the backseats of cars? 2008, check. Tobacco machines now regulated by ID swipe cards? 2008, check. Fire detectors must be installed in houses? 2008, check.]). Maybe it’s comparable to “whazzup ma nigga” and “fuck you nigger.”