Agreed, that’s a practical concern. I would also hope people with particularly wide hats would take them off when sitting in close quarters as not to injure their neighbors. And wearing non formal hats to a formal occasion is as cheesy as wearing sneakers and a tshirt.
LOL. True. But in many cases removing a hat is more intimate.
The thing I find most amusing and also infuriating is that people concerned about hats are latching onto one arbitrary aspect of a much larger and complex set of traditions. A good number of the situations where people used to follow hat etiquette would also be situations where they would be wearing more formal clothing and be in a more formal context. Expecting hats to come off but ignoring the fact that the rest of the clothing is casual, and the silverware is not carefully placed in a certain order, and the man no longer orders for the woman, seems to be awfully myopic.
I say if the situation is not fancy enough that the host or host’s servant offers to take one’s hat and coat, then neither needs be removed except for the person’s own sense of comfort.
This ignores the entirety of 20th century custom in the United States. Virtually all men wore hats every day as a matter of course until around 1960. That included men down to the lowest social classes. They wore hats every time they went outside for every reason. Only the tiny minority ever went into situations where a servant might be involved.
It’s absolutely not true that hats were only worn in formal situations. They were worn in every situation. And while appearing in public without a hat would often be seen as rude as appearing in public without pants, the two were never held to be equal. You were expected to take off your hat indoors and not doing so was considered rude. That’s why I alluded to reporters and private eyes earlier. They were literally classless, rude invaders of privacy and decency, which is why it didn’t matter if they left their hats on and why they often did so as a reverse badge of honor. This was truer of reporters in real life, of course. Most private eyes existed only in the movies but they were portrayed as keeping to the code of etiquette that society expected. We’ve lost many of the cues of dress and manners that old movies show so that aspect isn’t obvious to most of us, but it’s certainly there.
I am someone who wears a hat pretty much all the time I am out of the house. Anytime I step out the door, I have on either a cowboy hat or a “giveme” cap and they usually come off when I step in the house. As a kid going up, my Dad was very strict on hat rules, but he grew up in the 1920-30’s and as stated all men wore hats then and were more formal about the rules of wearing them. His rule was the hat came off as you stepped in the door and if you were visiting someone, you took you hat off on the porch when they answered the door and greeted you. I am not that strict on it, I kind of go by the same idea as a coat ( winter coat, not suit coat), if I am coming in their house to stay long enough to remove my coat and sit down to visit, I will take off my hat. If I am just stepping in the door long enough to tell them something or get something, I will keep my hat on.
As far as sitting down to eat with a hat on. My rule is, if it envolves being served and using real silverware and plates, the hat comes off. If I have to stand in line to get my food and eat off paper wrappers or plastic plates, the hat stays on. At MY table at home…no hats. The first time my now son-in-law ate with us and sat down at the table with a cap on (backwards no less) I informed my daughter if she wished she could eat with us or join him on the front porch where he would be sitting. She got this funny look on her face, looked at him and slapped the cap off his head. He got the message.
The one thing I can not stand is to see someone not remove their hat during the National Anthem or a prayer. I have been known to say something about that, either directly to the person or comment in general loud enough for them to hear it. But then again, I will also do that if a hat isn’t envolved, such as a person not standing for the anthem, or talking during it or a prayer.
You seriously had a problem with being asked to remove your hat in a cathedral? Would you also have a problem with being asked to wear one at the Wailing Wall, say? I’ve missed churches on vacation in conservative countries because I forgot and had bare shoulders and no sweater - their place, their rules, and you owe them respect.
I would be careful on who you pick your battles with on this one. I had a rather large and intimidating man do this to me three times in a bar at a hockey rink one night. The first two times he thought it was funny, he does not do it anymore.
Alot of people do not recognize me without my hat on. I wear one almost always, from the time I get up in the morning till I go to bed at night, mostly because it keeps my hair out of my face and neater looking. I can’t wrap my head around ridiculous, outdated rules for wearing hats. If I didn’t take it off already, don’t ask, cause I obviously want to leave it on.
That’s true, but I meant formal relative to today, not formal relative to casual standards back then. The two points I was trying to make were 1) The hat etiquette existed within the larger context of a more elaborate and homogenous etiquette structure and doesn’t make sense outside of it (except in practical situations) and 2) People, especially in urban areas, even the poor, dressed more often in a style that they may have considered casual but today we would consider more formal (suits and ties, dresses).
I should also point out that given the diversity of styles of and reasons for wearing various things on our heads, they just simply cannot be considered as being in the same category, just as we don’t consider yarmukles to really be ‘hats’ even though they are worn on the head. The idea of “worn on head = hat” just doesn’t work any more.
I found it really odd and kind of amusing given that it was at a cathedral that wasn’t having a service, is basically a tourist attraction, and has a gift shop. But assuming it was for religious reasons I wouldn’t mind. I’ve worn skullcaps to Jewish weddings when they were provided. But to go to a religious institution you know you’re in for a nonsensical experience because religion is often nonsensical.
In non religious contexts, though, being suddenly confronted by archaic superstitions or bizarre traditions is a jarring and sometimes offensive experience if you aren’t entranced by the status quo. Being asked (or insisting) to participate when there’s no practical purpose is annoying and rude. Hell, I’m even slightly wary of asking people to do things my way in my place when there’s a good practical reason. Autonomy is vital.
I do mind being asked in court since that has nothing to do with religion and it’s a public place and government owned establishment. Not that I would refuse or complain, since it would be a losing battle for me.
Hadn’t really thought about it. But no it doesn’t really bother me as I associate it only with legal proceedings and it seems to have a small practical effect, and more importantly it doesn’t remind me of any similar situation outside of that context that I find abhorrent.
In other words, I don’t find it to be relevant enough to the hat situation.
I do find the wig wearing in UK courts to be silly, and would be annoyed if I had to wear one, though I would obviously comply.
Just Tuesday night I bought a nice black fedora because I thought I looked good in it (my friends agreed) and because sometimes I want to look a little more classy than I do when I wear my usual baseball cap.
I have another fedora, but it’s more a little more dressy than the new one.
