There are various technologies other than lithium-ion being developed. One, for instance, uses zinc and chitosan, a substance derived from crab shells.
I’ve been riding electric bikes since the lead acid Currie bike days. So I’m a very satisfied customer.
Would I buy an electric car? No. Watch the videos on youtube of electric bikes catching fire. One can imagine the effect of a big car lithium battery going up in flames, and yes, that is in the realm of possibilities in the event of a crash or malfunction.
One of the guys on my eBike forum burnt his garage down and nearly his entire house when charging one. There’s a reason they have to be shipped by ground or ship, never by air. Pretty sure there are videos of cars catching fire as well. If something goes wrong or if it is near something burning, a lithium battery can very quickly get to around 1,000 degrees F, at which point it gives a very convincing imitation of a bomb going off.
E-bikes aren’t a good comparison, since so many are just cheap garbage. With lithium-ion, it matters a lot how the battery is managed. Automakers do a good job, for the most part. No-name Chinese companies producing $400 junk do not.
EVs can catch on fire, but do so at a much lower rate than gas cars. Which shouldn’t be a shock to anyone.
Some people worry. Some don’t. It’s been said humans are bad a risk assessment. I ignore almost all risks. Some go to the other extreme. If I’m not mistaken, gasoline has some explosion risks as well.
But gasoline powered cars never catch on fire?
Right, the big problem is batteries that don’t meet UL standards. In order to pack in more power density, manufacturers use smaller gaps between cells, increasing the possibility of catastrophic failure. And then there are the repaired or “refurbished” batteries which are little more than Russian roulette.
Slate had a good article on this last week.
Only some lithium-ion batteries pose a danger. Undamaged, unmodified batteries that meet certification standards set by UL Solutions—such as the ones in Teslas and cellphones and those used by bike-share programs like Citi Bike in New York—are widely regarded as safe. Citi Bike has thousands of e-bikes, and the New York City Fire Department says it hasn’t had any fire issues with those bikes. If you bought an e-bike from a reputable retailer and your battery has the UL marking, you can breathe easy.
I’ve seen what passes for commodity grade e-bikes here in town. Not sure I’d keep one in my house. And the homebrew ones range from exquisite labors of love to machines that probably should just come pre-ignited.
Anyway, to the point about EV vs gasoline-fueled car fires, here’s a data point from Autoweek…
Man, the buried lede in that article is that 3.5% of hybrid vehicles sold catch fire. Can that be right? If so, I wonder if the stats are skewed by a particularly bad vehicle.
I think the study is nonsense. It originates from good NTSB data, but the way they produce their numbers is bogus. There’s a Twitter thread on the problems here:
And the source data is available here:
https://t.co/Fp36A4ydi8
That said, table 2 in the NTSB data is still a reasonable hint that EVs are safe. The table shows the number of fires as a fraction of fatal accidents. BEVs and hybrids are in the ~2% range, while fossil fuels (gas, diesel, CNG) are 3-4%. So a modest benefit.
This does assume that a fatal accident in each vehicle type is of similar “intensity”; that is, the forces involved are roughly the same and the only variable is whether the energy source is likely to catch on fire as a result. That’s probably close to true, though.
Do cars with heat pumps still keep the cabin nice and toasty warm when it’s at or below zero?
I’m currently thinking i ought to get an e-bike ASAP. And yes, i would try to get a reputable one with an unmodified battery. Anyone have any experience with them? Any brands to recommend?
I had a company EV on order and I’ve just cancelled it.
Real-world performance from people with similar models and issues with range and charging infrastructure and cost mean that it is going to now be more hassle and more expensive to own.
I’ll purchase a much cheaper petrol car that’ll give me 450+ of range and a 5 minute refuel time with no searching for fast chargers.
I’m sure that they work for people in certain circumstances but mine dictate that it just isn’t going to be viable yet. Perhaps in 5 years.
I think they are best for people who regularly drive shorter distances (under 200 miles/day) and can recharge at home. Fast chargers are okay for a rare road trip, but for day-to-day use you want to just use a single charge, plug in at night, and basically never think about it.
I can’t answer this for 0°, but I’ve driven my Model 3 in 20° F. At a comfortable cabin temp (no jackets), the heat pump was not running on its higher and noisier setting. We had the seat heaters on the lowest of 3 settings. I suspect the system could handle 0°, easily.
In those circumstances they would be fine.
For us, we have at least 5 years ahead of us for ferrying children to university, long distance travels to aging relatives and cross-continental holidays.
I don’t fancy having to deal with charging queues at busy times or going out of my way to find stations. (these are all real-world observations from those who have EV already)
Also, from a purely financial POV, the company EV option is one that is likely now to attract a tax penalty and the cost of charging is pretty much no different from the existing ICE car I have and away from home is actually much more expensive, particularly under sub-optimal temperatures.
So the sums just don’t add up. A petrol vehicle will be cheaper to own for me and much easier to use. As my use cases change in the future and the infrastructure and technology matures then my choices may change as well.
Our 2023 Cadillac Lyriq has officially been pushed back to a 2024. It was supposed to come by the end of the 1st quarter 23 (i.e. next week), now we have no idea. I was hoping GM would get their act together better than they have…
I’m excited. My Audi Q4 e-tron (which is a company car) is finally arriving tomorrow. I ordered it in November 2021.
I think my driving and charging situation is close to ideal for EV ownership.
Around town, I never drive far enough that I can’t restore my charge overnight. Our electric bill is reduced by our solar panels.
The Supercharger network makes road trips easy. For most destinations, there are more charging locations than I need. I’ve had to wait for a charger 3 times in 18 months, and never for more than 10 minutes.
I spend far less time at a charger than I used to spend at gas stations, when I had a 30mpg car.
In terms of “fuel” cost, it’s like I have a car that gets ~60 mpg on the highway, and ~240 mpg in the city.
That’s strange to hear, although I’m assuming you’ve done the math. The last time I checked, in Florida at least, while going full electric would be too inconvenient for me to switch to, the prices were significantly less than half of petrol per mile, and that’s at commercial charging places. At home would be even cheaper.
However, that’s only the marginal cost of charging: even if I had a home and charged there most of the time, it would still be around the same price end to end considering that electric is more expensive even when you factor in incentives.
There is, however, the factor of maintenance. Electric is cheaper in the beginning since their motors don’t break down as much. But more expensive when they finally need a battery replacement. I don’t know which would be cheaper to maintain for the long term.
Oh I’ve got a spreadsheet! don’t worry about that. 
My current car gets 60 mpg or roughly 12.5p/mile at current fuel prices. So to go 100 miles will be £20. A home charge to take me 100 miles in the car I was chosing would be £13,
So pootling around the local area and relying on home charging only would probably save me £30 per month over an ICE. Not a huge amount over a year.
However, charging on the road (which I’d have to do a lot) would cost almost £30 for 100 miles unless I choose a slow charger. which means twiddling my thumbs for several hours at best, or a hotel overnight at worst and that is not taking into account the potential awkwardness caused by driving out of my way for a charging point, queuing for said chargers etc. None of that is something I’ve had to do with an ICE car.
Service costs are about 30% cheaper but this is wiped out by higher insurance costs.
Also, the lease of the car through work will now be subject to an increasing company car tax rate which means It’d soon be costing me another £50 per month which alone wipes out any fuel savings.
So having put all of the variables into the mixer a replacement ICE will be many
thousands cheaper to own over the five year window I’m looking at (not to mention far less hassle)