Graham, what exactly do you want to say about the book? I don’t understand your insistance that we read the book first, then you’ll tell us how you can prove the book is factual. If you can prove the book is factual I’d certainly be willing to read it. However, there are other people claiming that the book is a hoax, that means I’m not willing to read it.
If you give me a good reason to believe you over the other people I’ll believe you. If you just say “trust me”, I’m going to give it a pass.
Is there something wrong with my reasoning? If so, can you explain WHY it’s wrong?
We can read and comprehend just fine. The standard, unofficial rule here at this board (and many others), is, you make the claim, it’s up to YOU to back it up and provide sites, NOT for us to go and look it up for you.
Indeed I can read; indeed I can comprehend. YOu said these things after coyly suggesting that Castaneda might be telling the truth, in spite of very strong evidence that he’s an unethical liar. You offered no evidence about Castaneda.
A person’s claims are judged by their past claims. You’ve not given me any reason so far to trust your claims about Michelle Remembers, and you’ve still not given me any such reason.
If you’re determined to abandon Castaneda without resolving that issue, I can’t force you to grapple with the evidence that he’s done a very unethical thing. But nor can you force me to grapple with your evidence about Michelle REmembers –especially if you won’t tell me what the evidence is.
It may be best for you to take a few days, read a little bit about Castaneda from different viewpoints from the narrow viewpoint you already know about, and open your mind in regards to his work. Spend a few days thinking about him, what he’s done, and who it might hurt. Come back to the thread after some reflection. Right now, I think you’re feeling very attacked and very defensive, and you’re not giving the evidence the attention it deserves.
CRACK!! ::::Moderator cracks whip for attention:::: Graham, you are out of order. This is Cafe Society, not the Pit forum. Here we have polite discussion of works of art or entertainment. POLITE being the operative word. You may not insult fellow posters in this forum, just because they have a different opinion than yours. And certainly not for failure to change their opinion because you want them to. There are many ways of looking at a work of art or entertainment, and just because one is different from your way doesn’t mean the posters are “bozos” or “lazy ignorant yahoos.”
If you’re going to post in this forum, post politely. You may insult the artist or entertainer all you want, but NOT other posters. Got it?
One page 157 of MR, there’s a reference to “the lady from Vancouver.” She’s a possessed woman.
And I happen to know of a woman that is a carbon copy of her. The woman I know, like the woman Michelle mentions, has an agenda. A very VERY serious agenda.
On page 295 of MR, there’s a reference Satan allegedly makes – “six upside down helps me put on my crown” – AND it so happens that the possessed woman I know has done a very VERY evil deed in which there IS an upsidedown six involved!
The possessed woman Michelle describes comes from a time back in the '50s; the woman I’m talking about is alive and well in our current time period and “IF” one were to break-down and purchase a copy of MR (or borrow from a library), I could then reveal where one can see and hear with one’s own eyes and ears the possessed woman that is involved in all of this. She even has an interview at a certain website and while most of the things she says seems innocent, I’d point out specific things that one needs to think about, things that would blow past people that aren’t aware of who she really is and what she’s doing with respect to harming unsuspecting people that are crazy enough to engage her in anyway.
There’s also a DVD out there in which she speaks about what she’s infamous for that has her being interviewed, AND she makes the remark “I believe it was a setup by Spirit.” Again, people hearing that little comment won’t think twice of it, BUT they sure as hell should!!
The reason I can’t just fling out information about her without a person having a copy of the book is because the book describes much (but not all) of the whole “picture” of things that this all relates to. And because she and some of those she’s in cahoots with know about me (and they gave me a VERY serious warning to keep my mouth shut), I can’t risk disclosing details about them to people that might think this is all some kind of joke and not take seriously the dangerous position I’m in, and thus maybe email her and let her know what I’m up to just to see if there’s “really” is something to all of this (by seeing if I suddenly disappear off the planet).
I’m only interested in dealing with people that have the humility to permit me to guide them from one “dot” to another dot to another … and take to heart about certain things that are true but seem too far out to be true. I actually have a mountain of materials that make my case against them AND which lend weight to there being something to the book’s horrible implications.
The book MUST be read and in hand in order for me to do this right. There’s no way around it.
Also, “IF” a person obtains a copy of the book, said person would also need to get some other (inexpensive) materials that will add to helping me prove my case. But of course, everyone’s locked into sitting on their butts and picking at their toes … telling me I’m full of it and trying to force me to do things their way because they think they know more than me. What a joke.
Like I said, there’s very much a kind of “Green Aceres” eliment to this from my perspective, and yet there’s nothing the least bit funny about what the hatefreaks in question are doing. And they’ll keep doing it until I’m able to find someone that takes me seriously by following my instructions to the letter!.
Graham, I understand that you consider this to be proof, or at least indicative of proof. But, and I’m being very honest here, what I’m seeing sounds more like someone with paranoid delusions.
I seriously mean that, and it’s awful to read, because I can’t imagine how horrible it is to be organizing your life around such a nightmare.
I would like you to open your mind to the possibility that you’re incorrect in the conclusions you’re drawing from the evidence in front of you. If you’re incorrect, what implications does that have? What actions do you need to take for your own well-being?
and do not require the rather extraordinary concept of demonic possession.
And please remember–you are making an extraordinary claim. It is your responsibility to provide proofs, or at least support, for that claim.
None of us are stupid.
Nor are we evil.
But everything you have brought up can be understood by examining things of this world, without recourse to the supernatural. And we have high standards.
Please stick around. The Universe is full of wonderous things, which can be explained in this world. If you want to learn the secrets of the Universe, study physics, not magic.
I’m not sure it’s a good idea to encourage this behavior, whether it is simply delusional or just a prank. (“Follow my instructions to the letter” indeed.) Nothing we could possibly do will satisfy him; either we will not have followed the instructions properly, or there will always be additional tasks to do, or we will be running in circles from the start. (An upside down six is a nine. What conceivable deed could not be associated with a nine if one wanted to do so?)
Graham, you’re full of it. To repeat, the proof is incumbent on you, not on us.
As of yesterday it was at Amazon starting at around $3.70 for a used copy.
I must say, save for yourself, I can’t believe the lack of intellectual curiosity around here. I didn’t hesitate to buy a $17.00 book of fiction because someone raved about the writer being a better writer than Castaneda, but these people act like breaking down for a book that cost less than $5.00 is going to put them in ruin!
One day when someone takes me up on FOLLOWING ALL MY DIRECTIONS TO THE LETTER, all this pleading and tooth pulling will come to a screeching halt, and people will beg for me to make disclosures!
Of course now that I’ve said that, the clowns will come back and jump of me for being egotistical.
Interesting too, that they have all kinds of things to say about me and, yet, not one of them even bothered to ask me about giving them the website to where they could hear the possessed woman’s hour-long interview.
By the way, please understand that as I said before, later on, after you read the book, you’ll also need to obtain other materials that relate (of which I’ll make known then).
“Michelle Smith & Dr. Lawrence Pazder Michelle Remembers (1980). This is the first and probably the most important of the Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) books. It allegedly documents horrendous abuse suffered by Michelle at the hands of a Satanic cult during her childhood. Although there were a few isolated, false stories of SRA prior to Michelle being published, this book gave the “Satanic panic” a major boost. It was largely responsible for the formation of the widespread SRA movement in the early 1980’s. The Wiccan Information Network and other groups found that much of the book content was ultimately derived from Dr. Pazder’s (1936 - 2004) personal studies of African native rituals, rather than from Michelle’s memories. When the accuracy of his book was questioned during a seminar, Dr. Pazder allegedly stated that he and Michelle had never claimed that the events in the book actually happened!”
Eh, I’m out of stuff to read, and I’m always interested into insight on the human condition. Plus, I lost my copy of Popular Delusions of Crowds, so… bookhunting time.
I’d rather not pick it up at Amazon. No reason, I just like bookhunting. Serendipity is my friend. Didn’t find it at Barnes and Noble yesterday, by the way.
Seriously, though, you’re sounding a bit mystical. Do you think this book was written as a communication to you, or as a warning, or is the analogy simply that of times and places? I’ve seen things that’d make your hair curl, and I remain a bit of a skeptic. I won’t count on things existing till I can make 'em repeat at will.
Of course, I work with computers, so… You kind of learn to ‘trust but verify’ in that job.
Graham, don’t bother giving us the website where we can hear the woman’s interview. Just give us her name.
As for thinking that your predictions that we will “beg for [you] to make disclosures!” is egotistical, can you tell me why we shouldn’t think that?
Surely you’re aware that there are a lot of people in the world making blatantly false claims. Surely you’re aware that if we are to follow up on every one of these claims, we’ll have no time left. What sort of test do you propose we follow for deciding which claims deserve follow-up?
I’ve got such a test for myself, but I’m wondering what test you propose.
“When the accuracy of his book was questioned during a seminar, Dr. Pazder allegedly stated that he and Michelle had never claimed that the events in the book actually happened!” <---- What is the operative in this sentence??? (Hint: It undermines your contention big time.)
I heard an interview on the Larry King radio program … and neither Pazder or Smith ever said such a thing. If they said anything close to that, then I’d guess it was because they were threatened (as I was).
And so you site the Wiccan Information Society? My, aren’t they reputable!
Didn’t know that Pazder died. Hmm.
Religious Frauds .[/QUOTE
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That’s gotta be some good weed you’re smoking, why else would you not understand that I AM supplying proof/evidence by getting the ball rolling by making it known that my disclosure starts with Michelle Remembers. Why is it so hard for you to understand me when I say that in order for me to make things clear that it MR HAS to be read and in one’s hand … and THEN we begin a process of connecting the dots.
I don’t want to brag, but, I am actually a pretty smart guy and I know exactly the best way to go about MAKING THINGS KNOWN. And for me to just throw a bunch of names and various references out there won’t work. Now am I clear??
