It’s amusing to hear a band like Kiss accused of selling out. That’s like accusing Ryan Seacrest of selling out.
If the only point of your band in the first place is to make money and get laid how can you sell out?
I recall that there were a number of people who became famous under the banner of Rock ‘n’ Roll who later emerged as country artists – Rick Nelson, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis. It suggests to me that sometimes selling out is how you get your start, then you start doing the stuff truer to your own idiom. The Beatles started out much more poppy, doing Larry Williams covers and such. Then got experimental.
Or, to take another model, Tom Waits has gone through several phases in his career. Would you describe any of them as selling out? Seems to me he just kept developing as an artist, and his fans let him get away with it.
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Totally off topic.
I saw Accept on the Restless and Wild tour. I remember hearing Fast as a Shark for the first time. It was’ WTF is this. Followed by ‘These guys are the shit!’.
Great show.
Slee
Did I miss seeing David Bowie mentioned?
Bowie bonds.
In their defense, Yes had actually broken up at that time, and the songs on 90125 were intended to be a new project called “Cinema” that was a collaboration between Chris Squire and Trevor Rabin. However, they kept adding former members of Yes to complete the band, to the point where the record company insisted that they call it Yes.
So even though they had the same name and most of the same members, it was definitely a different band from the Yes of the '70s. And they were awesome, too, so sod off!
Lets say I make pizza that’s not very popular . Then I change the recipe to one I know will be more popular. Is that selling out? Or does the idea only apply to music?
Hell no, authors get the treatment, too. Stephen King is constantly accused of selling out.
Do you think the first recipe was actually better than the second?
Guess I am odd, I don’t care if the band/singer/author etc. changes their style to be more popular. I might like the old stuff or the new stuff or both.
It seems that there are many “elitist” type people who say “I only like the old stuff” as if that makes them sound smarter.
I say it a lot. I’m not an elitist and never cared about how people thought of me. Musicians run out of ideas. It happens to everyone I can think of. I call it when I see it. Truth hurts.
they run out of ideas after a few albums? Possible but not very likely. And it doesn’t happen to every single group like some people claim.
The real question in statements like these is ‘what if the BAND is tired of their previous format’?
To return to Rush - and I haven’t read the entire thread - they were asked for years why they didn’t follow up 2112 and Hemispheres with more long-form songs. To quote Neil Peart in an interview, “Been there. Done that.” They weren’t interested because they’d done that.
I’m not a big fan of accusing musicians - or any artists - of selling out because they’re there to make a living the same as everyone else. But to say that ‘not selling out’ means not changing what they’re doing EVER is taking things way over the top.
Well, all of my favorites have had a deterioration in their work. And I don’t hold it against them.
Who are you talking about? What group didn’t it happen to after say 10 years?
How would you know how likely it is for a songwriter to run out of ideas? Many artists have one song people know.
According to some of the comments about Metallica and my experiences in school, the definition is something along the lines of “When a band gains any fans who weren’t farmers in special ed classes in high school”- or insert some other micro-clique. It could be “eww, poor kids started singing along to that one song” or “eww, nerds starting liking them; they aren’t cool” or “some guy who wore pants was humming along to their 3rd single on their 6th album.”
Yes, it was Tony Banks from Genesis and I think most of their '80s music was excellent. It was certainly better than almost all the rest of the pop out there at the time with songs like Mama and Home By The Sea/Second Home By The Sea. And if it wasn’t for those '80s albums I never would have discovered prog.
A better example would be David Gilmour’s sad attempt to continue Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. AMLOR and the tour was all about the dollar.
Huh, 3 pages and nobody mentioned the group Chicago. The first album was very steeped in protest, and “Dedicated to the people and the Revolution in all of its forms.” (I quote from memory).
In what seems like a few short years, we get “Saturday in the Park”.
I was never really sure but what Terry Kath’s death might have had some influence in that. It pained me. I LOVED those first two albums, but the bubblegum quotient of the later stuff was just astonishing.
Sting. The Police’s whole history was Sting getting financially rewarded for sounding as radical as possible, and then money making him feel less radical as a direct result. He went on to record a light jazz album–probably his best-selling solo effort to date–and then whoring for bucks and shilling for VH-1 for the remainder of his commercial career (except for the weird Renaissance-themed album, Songs from the Labyrinth).
Sting did the opposite of selling out, he invented a new genre and played with musicians more talented than himself.
But that’s the very definition of selling out, innit? If one style isn’t working, try something more mellow and mainstream.
Of course, the sticky wicket will always be determining whether an artist genuinely felt like writing sappy pop songs no matter what (as Sting and Phil Collins seem to have been doing) or if they only did it for the almighty dollah. Some cases are obvious (e.g. Queensryche spending the last 25 years writing the sequel to “Silent Lucidity”) but most of the time, the artist could swear on a stack of Bibles with his fingers crossed behind his back and who’s gonna know that he’s lying? As for KISS, well, even Gene & Paul will tell you it was all about the business from day one; hard to call them true sellouts when they’ve always been about chasing the almighty dollah.
Rush is practically the anti-example of selling out. After their first three albums went nowhere, the record label insisted that they write more radio-friendly pop tunes or else they’d get dumped. Instead, they went the other direction and wrote “2112”, a 20-minute prog rock opera – they figured hey, if they’re gonna go down they’re gonna do it on their own terms. Lucky for them (and the rest of the world, natch) “2112” was a smash success, allowing them to do whatever they felt like doing for the rest of their career (even their synth-drenched 80’s phase was based on Geddy Lee’s unhealthy addiction to keyboards.)
It’s more accurate to say “Just You ‘n’ Me” and “Wishing You Were Here” was the start of their sellout phase (and FYI, Terry Kath didn’t die until four years later.)
To be clear, I fucking hate Sting’s solo work, but have to agree with madsircool in concept: in his book, Sting discusses smooth jazz as his first love (perhaps not by that name) and how his first successful band played that type of music. I think that his learning reggae chops and putting on a punk-pop vibe for The Police was more selling out on his true music sensibilities. His solo stuff is the music he loves.
Selling out is a funny thing - everyone has their definition. Someone like Grace Slick, who grew up Grace Wing in a wealthy town close to Palo Alto, went to an exclusive private girl’s school, then got in touch with her hippie bad self in the Haight Ashbury, only to end up singing We Build This City? Yeah, sorry, but if that ain’t selling out, I don’t know what is.
Now, granted, **Grace Slick **is a cool broad (I say that with praise and respect - Barbara Stanwyck and Bette Davis are cool broads, too) - she took a wrong step or three but ultimately I think she stepped back. No different from Heart in the 80’s with their cheesy ballads, Fat Ann to the background, Hot Nancy to the foreground period. I love Heart and hated that period - it was fine by me that they hated it too and came back with so much respect.