Jeez, I don’t like McDonald’s (or any fast food other than NYC pizza), but the legend around the fries being passed here is exaggerated, to say the least.
Here is a good article with the history of the fries. To sum up:
<1990: MickeyDees fried its potatoes in oil using a significant portion of beef tallow for flavor
1990 - present: MickeyDees got rid of beef tallow, but still used beef extract.
5/2002: McD settled for $10,000,000 outstanding suits, although McD’s had done nothing wrong, about not disclosing under the heading of ‘Natural Flavors’ that beef extract was an ingredient. Ingredient list was updated.
2/2003: McD changed its oil; beef extract is still present (just check at www.mcdonalds.com)
At no point did McDonalds ever, ever claim that it’s fries were vegetarian. Nor did the highly regulated company disobey any FDA guidelines regarding its ingredient list. The FDA allowed the amount of beef extract used in the oil to be labelled under ‘Natural Flavors’. No hiding - they followed the rules to the letter. And they still got in trouble.
I know that MickeyDees is one of those corporations that many like to demonize. I know that MickeyDees food isn’t fit for (my) consumption. But this is the SDMB. We owe it to ourselves, in any forum, to get our facts straight when talking about any subject.
Anna, you were right (and a little research on my part would have revealed it), beef extract is still a part of the oil used to fry the fries.
Rite Aid: I was in their store the day after Thanksgiving. I got 20 little Christmas bags to use to “wrap” ornaments. They all came off of the same rack. 5 of them wouldn’t scan. The guy scanned it once, twice, three times. Then he called over another teller. Scan: once, twice three times. They call the manager. She comes up and scans it (only twice.) How much were these? she asked. 99 cents I reply. These are not 99 cents! she tells me.
WTF? You don’t know how much they are, but you tell me I’m lieing when I give you a price?
OK I say, I’ll get them elsewhere. She says that is fine with her.
As far as I’m concerned, they clearly don’t need my business.
I may forgive them one day, but until then CVS gets all my business. Even if they had stocked them wrong, the difference in price couldn’t have totaled more than 5 dollars for the lot. So for five bucks they have lost hundreds of dollars of my business and thousands depending on how long I carry that grudge.
Nobody said it was against the law to say ‘natural flavors.’ However, they were repeatedly asked, and stonewalled for years, to say whether the fries were vegetarian or not.
You also didn’t note that last year they settled for 8.5 million more for saying they’d use less trans-fats, then didn’t.
I used to defend McDonald’s, because they do get demonized. However, they have done too many things that I feel were immoral (not illegal), and I don’t eat there anymore.
What McD’s did not do is stonewall for years. Some of the claims (and I cannot find the results of the lawsuits arising from them) are that, at the restaurant-level, customers were improperly told by McEmployees that the fries were vegetarian. That is not stonewalling. That is uninformed (see the apology) people giving the wrong answer. McDonald’s the corporation did not make any claims that its fries were vegetarian. Here is an article which claims the exact opposite. All people had to do was ask. The beef (pun intended) was that people had to ask that fries cooked in ‘veggie oil’ were not strictly vegetarian.
*Unfortunately, McDonald’s news archives only go back to 2003 and their website search function does not appear to be working for any term (at least for me). This is taken from one of many articles available online regarding the apology.
For the record, while I do like McDonald’s fries (when they’re hot and fresh out of the oil), I don’t eat at MickeyDees as there is nothing else on their menu that I find appealing.
And the article you linked? Says they made great fanfare in 1990 that the oil was all vegetarian, and in 1998 they admitted there were beef products in the fries.
I will look more - I remember a friend of mine who works a PETA saying they had asked several times and McDonald’s never answered. That’s stonewalling.
I know. I don’t really like Burger King fries, though. I try not to eat unhealthy food unless I really like it, or I’m desperately hungry and can’t find anything else to eat.
Fair enough. I definitely will concede that McD’s did not effectively disseminate the information to everyone who needed to know, internally or externally. No doubt about that. Having worked in large, multinational corporations, I know how easy it is for a letter like that to go out, the person sending it having no idea it is false, and no one in the know having a clue it went out. This is not forgiving McD’s for their poor communication; just a dose of reality as to how it happens. I certainly don’t see any conspiracy or ulterior motives on McD’s part in this.
As for PETA, MickeyDees probably has a whole floor in their Oakbrook offices dedicated to shredders specifically for letters from various PETA chapters and members. If I were in charge, I know I’d always be worried about how PETA would spin any answer sent them, and would avoid all correspondence with them. PETA would definitely be treated differently than The Vegetarian Journal. But that’s just me and not at all indicitave about McD’s official policy towards answering known PETA inquiries.
I had the same experience when my mother came to visit. She couldn’t believe that I didn’t know where a Wal-Mart near my apartment was. We’re within walking distance of a Target. Why on earth would we ever go to Wal-Mart?
Isn’t there a difference between a “boycott” and a place you won’t go back to because of a bad experience?
For examply, there is a local restaurant here that I won’t go back to because of a horrible experience there. There are way too many other restaurants I like to waste my time at a place which had bad food, bad service, and a rude manager.
I always think of a boycott as being politically/morally motivated.
Powerade—Here’s a story.
I used to have a job where I was a courier for the San Diego blood bank. Being in the car 8 hours a day forced me to stop quite often for cigarettes & sugar-water and I purchased a powerade at a gas station. They were doing one of those check-under-the-cap style give aways where the grand prize was a trip to the 2000 Olympics. So, at about 10:30 in the morning, I open the Powerade to find out—holy shit!—first prize! Alert the press! Let’s celebrate! But what is it? The cap didn’t say. I had to go to the powerade website to claim my prize. I spent the entire day driving around, fantasizing about thousand dollar prizes, new cars, and so on, but eventually talked myself down & decided I’d end up with maybe a Powerade T-shirt or something. No matter. I could use it to go jogging or something.
So I get home, rush upstairs, fire up the modem (it WAS 2000, after all) and check my prize.
And you know what I won?
A screen-saver. A fucking screen-saver. Naturally, a fucking screen-saver filled with Powerade ads. Grand prize? All-expense paid trip to the Olympics. Next best prize? Free advertising in your home and cookies and your hard drive.
Powerade—Here’s a story.
I used to have a job where I was a courier for the San Diego blood bank. Being in the car 8 hours a day forced me to stop quite often for cigarettes & sugar-water and I purchased a powerade at a gas station. They were doing one of those check-under-the-cap style give aways where the grand prize was a trip to the 2000 Olympics. So, at about 10:30 in the morning, I open the Powerade to find out—holy shit!—first prize! Alert the press! Let’s celebrate! But what is it? The cap didn’t say. I had to go to the powerade website to claim my prize. I spent the entire day driving around, fantasizing about thousand dollar prizes, new cars, and so on, but eventually talked myself down & decided I’d end up with maybe a Powerade T-shirt or something. No matter. I could use it to go jogging or something.
So I get home, rush upstairs, fire up the modem (it WAS 2000, after all) and check my prize.
And you know what I won?
A screen-saver. A fucking screen-saver. Naturally, a fucking screen-saver filled with Powerade ads. Grand prize? All-expense paid trip to the Olympics. Next best prize? Free advertising in your home and cookies on your hard drive.
bup, working backwards from your link, I found the full text of the apology. I stand corrected. McDonald’s admitted to incorrectly indentifying foods fried in the oil as vegetarian. IMHO, it is a case of some people in the firm knew, but most did not, and they communicated the wrong information (Og only knows how slowly useful information disseminates through my firm…rumor and innuendo however, fly through the ether at speeds approaching light).
How come nobody is boycotting Proctor & Gamble with me? I don’t know how long ago I heard they were doing not just animal testing, but excessive animal testing. I’ve believed it and avoided their products ever since.
I’m still not eating at Maurice’s. They’re still open. I don’t know how, since nobody else I know will eat there either. Every time I see the place I want to spit.
I’m still not eating at Chik-Fil-A. My parents do, though, most Mondays. (They don’t eat at Maurice’s, at least. Well, my dad would, but we don’t let him.)
I try not to go to Wal-Mart, but sometimes you gotta have something at 1 in the morning and they’re the only go-to place. I mostly avoid, though.
I found out the reasons for the Maurice’s boycott with a search of that and your name. (Yes, I’m being very anal for midnight, but enquiring minds need to know so they can sleep.)
I’ve got two serious ones, and one lame one going on now:
Sony-- for ridiculus “copy protection” policies and software.
Wal-Mart-- because they force the producers of the products they sell to move to China, because they say that doing this saves money for the consumer while it only increases their profits, and for perpetuating the culture of comsumerism and greed that’s makng this country spiral into 3rd world status. In addition to horrible treatment of employees.
Relic Entertainment (the lame one)-- for refusing to make patches that their games sorely need
Century 21. Doesn’t make a big difference now that I own a place, but back when we were renters, they were extremely polite and helpful with my Japanese (then-)girlfriend, but suddenly switched to “sorry, nothing’s available” as soon as I walked in.
McDonald’s. Nothing against them ethically, I’m just trying to avoid fast food.
Sony. Not only are they our rudest, most obnoxious client, they killed my dog. (ok, so it was just a robot. I’m still pissed.)
Adam Sandler and Tom Green. “50 First Dates” looks interesting, but I just don’t want any of my cash going to that idiot.
