The problem is the left wing version of equality.
LOL. Well, a lot of people would say the problem is the chest-beating liberals who have got their heads up their own arses in supporting the political status quo but who are utterly convinced, in their own legendary, they are ‘progressive’.
At this point in USA history they are pointedly delusional. Change has to come and they have built a pile of crap they think is moral high ground.
Fair points and yeah if you have people going around saying “god hates fags” they deserve all they get. If they’re trying to tell gay couples they shouldn’t have rights then sure, yell at them and call them bigots.
All I was really getting at with being calm / tactful / diplomatic was… let’s say subjects like immigration, that’s probably the biggest one we just faced in the UK and was primarily on my mind when writing that. People have their reasons to be concerned about the general number of people brought into a country and genuine beliefs that it would be better to put tighter limits on those numbers. I don’t agree with them, but acknowledge that they have reasoning and that said reasoning is not necessarily always “I don’t like brown people”. Unfortunately, that’s what my fellow lefties often tell them. Constantly just dismissing them as racist without listening to their concerns has pushed them further and further away so they feel like they have to be shittier and shittier to be heard and then you have the kind of rise in hard-right nationalism that we’ve been experiencing.
Just spitballing here - Increase taxes on the wealthy to the point where income taxes can be mostly eliminated on anyone earning under $100,000. Expand the ACA with an eye to eventually go single-payer. In addition to money-for-college earned through military enlistment, make it available to a wide variety of public-service jobs, including infrastructure repair, and make sure the money can be spent on vocational training as well.
The ultimate goal being to free the working- and lower-middle-classes from being locked into jobs they don’t like just but stay at for the health insurance. Try to crank out more blue-collar professionals like electricians, plumbers, welders, CNC operators, machinists and cabinetmakers, as well as nurses, dental hygienists, orderlies, and other health-care support staff to take care of the oncoming crush of aging baby-boomers.
What’ll it cost? A gigafuckton. Will the U.S. end up paying it anyway in other expenses, as for more prisons? Almost certainly.
I live in Australia. We already are seeing the effects of the left wing ideology here. Earlier in the year, one of the major banks announced that they would make have a staff quota, where a percentage of their employees had to be Aboroginal. We hear often about small buisnesses being fined and handed please explains if they fail to hire somebody who marks themselves as being any race other than white, or if they don’t have a person of a certain race on staff. This is the backbone of the problem with left ideologies. Take away the rights of the majority, and put the rights of minorities above everybody else. If you’re straight or white. your rights don’t matter. As long as black people and gay people have equality with other minorities, that’s all that matters.
The right ideology has been painted as being evil, wanting to have a white utopia. At least that’s the line that the left spin out consitantly. What the right want is to have true equality. Forget about race, gender or sexual orientation. All people are equal no matter who they are. Minorities realise this. They know they get more rights under a left wing government. They come out and smear any right wing politics, knowing that under them they will no longer be above the law. And the left wing powers sieze on this, and repeat the message, of how the right want to marginalise the rights of minorities. The cycle continues. Right now, straight white people have the least rights of any group of people. If we were any other group, there’d be cries of outrage about our posistion every single day. But we’re white and straight and we don’t matter. That’s what is really happening, and that’s what thousands of people every day are beginning to realise.
And this is why people have been flooding out of both parties since 2000. A roughly equal share of Americans currently identify as Democrat, Republican, and Unaffiliated. As a side effect, this has put both R and D towards the extremes of their spectrums as the moderate get tired of rhetoric and move away.
While you do have Trump supports who care most about immigrants, a large cohort of his supporters are there because of what Hillary represents. A lot of voters came out and hopped on in 08 Obama because he promised change. What they got was more of the same. Those that have fled the parties, at this point, will donate the presidency and congress to the people (over the party) that seem to be the highest chance to focus on what they believe the government is there for. “What the government is there for” varies heavily within the unaffiliated group.
But, what this group sees is a vast network of cronyism, major and ‘minor’ corruption at all levels. Chapman University conducted a poll and the fear that most people cite is government corruption. The next (not close) following are terrorism and economic concerns.
I think ultimately, maybe this is just a false belief, but I like to think people generally are not monsters. Self interested yes, ignorant often, caught out by propaganda sometimes, but not evil.
In another thread I had the wrong idea about safe spaces (I’m leftie but it’s a new concept to me and I try to listen to both sides of an argument and accept possible flaws on ‘my’ side), and expressed my distaste for my perception of them.
What could’ve happened:
Another poster effectively screams at me and calls me a bigoted cis white waste of blood and organs who wants the right to invade spaces and derail everything with disgusting hate-filled bile. I learn nothing, and go away with a bruised ego and say “wow yeah the left really has become crazy” and distance myself.
What actually happened:
A poster calmly and rationally explained their side of the story of how the concept is actually supposed to work and why it’s a thing, and how my version of it is something I’ve picked up from right wing propaganda. I learned something, stopped being ignorant about safe spaces and apologised.
That’s why I think people should be given benefit of the doubt and treated as though they have good intentions until they prove beyond reasonable doubt that they don’t. I have flaws and can be misled or generally ignorant about something and am sure this is not unique to me.
I know there’s the “it’s not our job to educate people” argument but I really do think that there has to be some of that if you wish to change minds. I think it’s a far more effective way of changing someone’s mind than just yelling that they’re wrong and disgusting and should be ashamed of themselves.
Yeah. I know Conservatives think that Liberals are idiots. They’ve been calling us Idiots, Traitors, and so on for decades. They’re not shy about it. They certainly aren’t just doing it because I’m being mean to them. But since Conservatives have been objectively wrong about every major issue for the last fifty years, their opinion is not something that those of us in the reality-based community need to care about.
It’s a nice example, though, of the way Conservatives are being disingenuous about insisting that we should only use tact and delicacy when discussing their problematic world-view.
It couldn’t possibly be because the OP and fellow travelers treats everyone who isn’t a bobble-headed cheerleader for “progressive” dogma as complete retards, would it?
The post is so fucking condescending, which is typical of people who think they know what is best for you. If the “progressives” would withdraw their head out of their asses, the might be able to notice that the ambassadors of “the message” are largely part of the communication breakdown. Who the hell wants to put up with talking to someone that acts like that?
Okay, so tell me. If you are, or can easily imagine yourself to be, a trump follower, who has been gifted with the ability to argue your case both with calm rationality and respect for others’ dignity, good faith, and points of view, what would you say? What do you want to see happen in the United States? How exactly do you envision making that happen?
I’m not really qualified to have an informed discussion about how things should go down in other countries. I apologize. This is a thread about Trump Supporters. I couldn’t begin to say how other people should deal with their people.
For reference - Trump Supporters chant regularly about lynching Donald’s political opponent. They wear guns and hang around Democratic political offices to intimidate opposition voters. They assault people of color. They talk openly about armed revolution if Donald doesn’t win. Several of them were just arrested for planning to bomb an apartment building full of Syrian refugees.
They’re not waving signs and chanting about ending free trade and crony capitalism. They’re not committing voter intimidation because they admire Goethe, lol. They’re not planting bombs because they want a new political system.
What they want is to hurt women and black people and Mexicans. That’s what they’re talking about. That’s what motivates them. They’re not disaffected poli sci majors. They’re angry, stupid, violent bigots, who have been sold a pack of lies by the Republican Party for the last thirty years, and now they want to hurt the people they stupidly blame for their problems.
If there’s anyone in UK or Aus or Canada like that, well, you have my sympathies.
When you make statements like this, you really show that you’re too immature to be involved in a political discussion.
Voter intimidation? Planting bombs? I think you confused Trump supporters with Black Lives Matter.
I agree
Well a view as extreme and stupid as this also shows your immaturity and inabiity to participate in this discussion. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about, epscially since you referred to the right wing as “they” meaning you have no idea what they are thinking. All you are trying to do here is appear as one of the ‘good guys’ by tryiing to stifle free speech.
Again -
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Conservatives have been calling Liberals idiots and worse for years, so spare me all the hurt fee-fees. Conservatives have no problem calling other people names so I’m tired of being told I have to treat them with kid gloves.
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Doing something self-destructive (like supporting Don the Con) because a Liberal was mean to you … doesn’t reflect poorly on the Liberal.
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Conservatives have been objectively wrong about every major issue for the last fifty years - Viet Nam, Single Parenthood, Birth Control, Sex Ed, Climate Change, Trickle-down economics, selling arms to Iran to fund the Contras, Clinton’s impeachment, Ignoring Osama Bin Ladin’s determination to attack the United States, Banking De-regulation, School Busing, FEMA, ACORN, Healthcare, Whitewater, Benghazi, Gay Marriage, Trans Bathrooms, BLM, Sexual Harrassment, The War on Drugs, recession spending, Civil Rights, Tax Cuts - it just never stops.
Meanwhile, Conservatives were calling us Liberals traitors and sulking when people tried to explain what they’re doing wrong.
Liberals have tried being polite and talking nicely about this for decades. The result? Actual conservatives threatening to lynch our Democratic presidential nominee, because they believe the pack of lies that the Republicans have been selling about her for decades. Actual conservatives assaulting black people on the street. Actual gun-toting conservatives lurking outside Democratic offices. Actual conservatives planning to bomb an apartment building full refugees.
It is past time to stop being nice about this.
I quoted actual things conservatives actually say. I can provide citations for conservatives chanting, “Lock her up!”, lurking with guns outside Democratic offices, talking openly about armed insurrection, and planning to bomb apartment buildings. (But I mean, it’s all over the news. It’s not some secret or anything.)
I’m referring to actual actions that actual Conservative Trump Supporters have actually committed, in the actual public eye.
You, otoh, got nothing.
An American who thinks the President has the kind of power to either create or solve economic problems is misinformed. The president may be an easy target to either summon hatred for or pin hopes on, but it’s congress who controls the money. If you voted for tea party candidates in 2010 or later, I blame you for current problems, and Trump isn’t going to fix them even if he had the brainpower to do so.
All you’re doing is spewing a bunch of far left catchphrases, assuming you’re right and that everyone else is wrong. Did you ever consider that simply you’re wrong? Of course there’s no point in trying to communicate with you because you’ll clearly never change your view, and nobody will be convinced by your far left anti free speech text walls. Please leave the thread, people will do nothing but ignore you.
It doesn’t really matter what they want or what their problems are. If they think Trump is going to solve those problems, then I have some land in Florida and a bridge in New York to sell them.
Oh–and my friend, the Nigeria prince, has an important message for them.
You say this like Obama and Bush haven’t spent 16 years stretching what the Executive branch can do with little challenge from the Legislative or Judicial branches.
A modern president can (and does!) use the presidency to set all sorts of regulations in the Bureaucracy, which is power explicitly given up by the Legislature, which can and do have an economic impact. If a president were to make a substantive change to these regulations, they could have a significant economic impact on the country.
As an example, whether you agree with the policies or not, the Clean Power Plan will cause significant economic change. “Cancelling” that set of regulations would change the economics of power production.