What can truly be done about "Trump supporters"

[Algher]

There are multiple issues here. Let’s start with the concept of the Trump Supporter.

Are we talking about the battered party member syndrome? Where people have been a part of the Republicans for their entire life, and they don’t see themselves as Democrats. They might not like Trump, but they don’t want Hillary putting several nominees onto the Supreme Court. They stay because they don’t see another place to do. Blame the Constitution for this one - it set up the rules for a two party system. It is possible we will watch the party die - but what will replace it?

Fareed Zakaria has input on that: https://fareedzakaria.com/2016/10/13/the-gop-is-history-what-about-the-country/

There will be a fight for the soul of what’s left of the Republican Party. We can see the battle lines. People such as House Speaker Paul Ryan (Wis.), backed by most serious conservative intellectuals, will try to restore the party to its Reaganesque ideology — with free markets, limited government, entitlement reform and an assertive foreign policy. Others, such as Trump’s running mate, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, backed by Christian conservatives, will try to bridge divides and keep everyone in a big tent. But then there is Trump, who has — for now, at least — the crowds, the energy and a powerful message. Political scientist Justin Gest recently surveyed white Americans on whether they would support a party committed to “stopping mass immigration, providing American jobs to American workers, preserving America’s Christian heritage, and stopping the threat of Islam.” Sixty-five percent said yes.

The next issue is those deplorables, and other insulting terms for the poor white supporters. The best insight I have seen on that topic is here:

http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites-chant-trump-trump-trump/

From the era of slavery to the rise of Donald Trump, wealthy elites have relied on the loyalty of poor whites. All Americans deserve better.

We continue to separate the urban from the rural, the college educated from the trades, etc. Then, the people in power with zero concept of what the majority of Americans do to pay the bills pass legislation without knowing the impact.

Op-Ed: How the widening urban-rural divide threatens America

The elite that runs the country in politics, finance, journalism and academia is urban to the core: degrees from brand-name universities, internships at well-connected agencies, residence in New York or Washington, power marriages. The power resume does not include mechanical apprenticeships, work on ships or oil rigs, knowledge of firearms or farm, logging or mining labor — jobs now regulated and overseen by those with little experience of them.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@crucible

Being a Trump supporter is not the same as being a ‘deplorable’. College educated people are simply less subject to racial or sexual bias, in general, than the ‘underclass’ of ‘deplorables’ that HRC validly called out as being the type of people who are prone to become supporters of simple solutions, blaming their problems on immigrants, minorities and eggheads.

Those college educated Trump supporters don’t go around with shirts “grab me here, Donald”, an arrow pointing to their crotch. They don’t chant “lock her up”, or threaten assassination and other forms of revolution if HRC is elected. Some college educated people certainly remain bigoted and socially conservative, but more than likely, such supporters that Trump has with a college education are making a calculated guess that the country needs a degree of tension to get Washington to get off its collective ass and do something constructive.

Yes, because those smart, college-educated guys totally can’t be “deplorables”, amirite? :dubious::rolleyes: Also by your reasoning, American blacks and Hispanics should be more subject to racial and sexual bias simply by virtue of their lower rates of college education

[Duke_of_Rat]

@Sterling_Archer

Blame them for preventing new investments in wind and solar power, which could give rural people lots and lots of jobs.

FWIW, Texas’ 13th Congressional District is the reddest district in the country, Cook +32 (may change after the Nov. 8 election) and you can’t swing a cat without hitting a wind turbine. And more under construction, even more planned or proposed. They are everywhere, hardly a day goes by that a truck convoy hauling blades or towers goes by it seems. Texas on whole has more wind energy generation installed than CA, WA, OR, NM, CO, and WY combined. So just a small nitpic in your rant.

[crucible]

@John_Mace

You have a cite for all that, right?

surely I must have placed an IMHO in there somewhere…

[crucible]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

Yes, because those smart, college-educated guys totally can’t be “deplorables”, amirite? :dubious::rolleyes: Also by your reasoning, American blacks and Hispanics should be more subject to racial and sexual bias simply by virtue of their lower rates of college education

Poor people are not inherently ‘deplorable’. I was poor, but never, ever deplorable. Badly educated poor people who grew up with a degree of racial hatred often become ‘deplorable’, the word describing their belief system and their hateful activities moreso than their ‘poor, white’ status. Forrest Gump may have said it best. Or, his Mama. So, minorities of whatever kind tend to be far more tolerant of each other and identify their goals moreso with Democratic platforms than do poor whites and bigotted groups like neo-Nazi’s and KKK who thrive on blaming any and all faults in themselves and in the country on minorities and immigrants.

People are ‘deplorable’ when they cannot understand the economics of immigration. People are deplorable when they use scripture to support their belief than a woman should be subservient to a man…etc. etc.

[TwiSpark]

On the education side of things, I’d say it helps with things like “TEH MUSLAMS”
People can be educated on what Islam is, how many Muslim people there are in the world, and maybe learn some mathematical statistics on what percentage are actual terrorists - then they might stop with the “Muslim = Terrorist” bullshit. Just one thought.

[crucible]

@TwiSpark

On the education side of things, I’d say it helps with things like “TEH MUSLAMS”
People can be educated on what Islam is, how many Muslim people there are in the world, and maybe learn some mathematical statistics on what percentage are actual terrorists - then they might stop with the “Muslim = Terrorist” bullshit. Just one thought.

Excellent point. I just noticed that Chris Matthews was talking about a new poll where Trump supporters were asked if Obama is a Muslim. 65% said yes. Matthew’s take was that more than half of Trump supporters are demonstrating that they are ‘deplorable’. However, I suspect that college educated white men who support Trump are not as easily found, to poll, as the hopped up, rally attending, ‘kill her’ chanters, so the poll may not be strictly scientific. Still 50% deplorable, about 20% of the overall voting population, is a pretty good estimate.

[TwiSpark]

This tech repair guy (who admittedly really resonates with me in almost everything he says) says what I was trying to say on page 2 about being tolerant and patient with Trump supporters MUCH better than I ever could.

15 minutes, though he gets the point across in the first 5.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@TwiSpark

This tech repair guy (who admittedly really resonates with me in almost everything he says) says what I was trying to say on page 2 about being tolerant and patient with Trump supporters MUCH better than I ever could.

15 minutes, though he gets the point across in the first 5.

Sometimes persuasion will not work. In those cases I might prefer the cathartic experience of simply calling them an idiot for the sake of my own good mental health.

[Sputnikkk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulfreida View Post

My question is, what can possibly be done with such an intractable, impenetrably destructive and self-destructive group of people? Obviously, a very large group now.

You can go to a forum like this https://disqus.com/home/discussion/c...have_no_pussy/ which is full of people who read Breitbart to get all their political information, and relay it in Memes. Join the forum AND REACH OUT TO A TRUMPSTER AND TRY TO FLIP THEM. Post well written New Yorker, Washington Post articles, or your own opinions, in hopes they will learn to appreciate good writing and journalism and develop a life long love of reading.

@Latro

Have you got some examples?

Have you seen the new viral videos that have come out that were made by James O’keefe? I’ve gone on to several forums and posted the History of James O’keefe and what he did to the ACORN foundation… Saying,O’Keefe’s new videos are faked, based on what was found out about his old videos here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0B0wxt3XYc

O’Keefes New Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG1xXvLNIIo

[jayjay]

@control-z

That was a good article. It also contained this map, which shows whether each county is majority Democrat/Republican rather and the standard state level of precision, or the purple maps that show the mixture: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/countymaprb512.png There is a whole lot of red in between the blue urban areas!

Acreage doesn’t vote.

[LSLGuy]

Acreage does have a way of trapping it’s inhabitants in a monoculture though. As somebody almost said a few posts ago, we can’t run a democratic country where 90% of the people in 70% of the counties believe the entire government is run by cultural & socio-economic groups utterly foreign to themselves. Even if that 90% of 70% is only 30% of the total.

As long as all citizens have a vote, then all citizens need to be mostly on board with what the country is and where the country is going. We can’t have a one country two systems. Or worse yet, two countries one system.

[Acsenray]

@LSLGuy

Acreage does have a way of trapping it’s inhabitants in a monoculture though. As somebody almost said a few posts ago, we can’t run a democratic country where 90% of the people in 70% of the counties believe the entire government is run by cultural & socio-economic groups utterly foreign to themselves. Even if that 90% of 70% is only 30% of the total.

This makes no sense to me. 30 percent is 30 percent, no matter how much space they put in between each other.

They should have the same fundamental rights as any other large majority. But they should not be given a permanent veto over overall policy.

A country is its people and each person is equal to every other person, regardless of where they live.

Indeed, for national election and representation purposes I think we ought to amend the constitution eliminate consideration of state boundaries altogether.

We have been a single nation wth a unified economy and a national culture for a long time now. We should start acting like it and toss out the pretense that states are actually sovereign entities.

[octopus]

@Acsenray

This makes no sense to me. 30 percent is 30 percent, no matter how much space they put in between each other.

They should have the same fundamental rights as any other large majority. But they should not be given a permanent veto over overall policy.

A country is its people and each person is equal to every other person, regardless of where they live.

Indeed, for national election and representation purposes I think we ought to amend the constitution eliminate consideration of state boundaries altogether.

We have been a single nation wth a unified economy and a national culture for a long time now. We should start acting like it and toss out the pretense that states are actually sovereign entities.

I don’t see that happening in the next 100 years.

[LSLGuy]

@Acsenray

This makes no sense to me. 30 percent is 30 percent, no matter how much space they put in between each other.

They should have the same fundamental rights as any other large majority. But they should not be given a permanent veto over overall policy.

A country is its people and each person is equal to every other person, regardless of where they live.

Indeed, for national election and representation purposes I think we ought to amend the constitution eliminate consideration of state boundaries altogether.

We have been a single nation wth a unified economy and a national culture for a long time now. We should start acting like it and toss out the pretense that states are actually sovereign entities.

My point was not that the 30% should get some special dispensation or extra power. And I agree with you that under current reality the states as sovereign entities is a 95% obsolete concept that hurts more than it helps.

My point was entirely that a democratic country which has two geographically and culturally isolated populations is a democratic country headed towards an acrimonious life, perhaps followed by an acrimonious divorce.

As amply demonstrated over history by e.g. the current Shia / Sunni issues in the Mideast and the currently quiescent Troubles in Northern Ireland. Once mutual incomprehension rises to the level of mutual antagonism, serious problems follow. It took ~80 years after the shooting began for the relatively calm and civilized Irish people to decide enough was enough. and even then we’re not sure they’re really done killing each other over which flavor of mainstream Christianity they prefer.

It could easily take the relatively less civilized and more heavily armed Americans a lot longer to calm back down. Think about that.

This is a future that’s worth taking active measures to avoid. What Clinton said in the second half of her “deplorables” comment was by far the smarter and more relevant part. Which got utterly drowned out in the sound-bite journalism.

[LSLGuy]

Late edit: Try this improved version instead. Sorry to double post.

@Acsenray

This makes no sense to me. 30 percent is 30 percent, no matter how much space they put in between each other.

They should have the same fundamental rights as any other large majority. But they should not be given a permanent veto over overall policy.

A country is its people and each person is equal to every other person, regardless of where they live.

Indeed, for national election and representation purposes I think we ought to amend the constitution eliminate consideration of state boundaries altogether.

We have been a single nation wth a unified economy and a national culture for a long time now. We should start acting like it and toss out the pretense that states are actually sovereign entities.

My point was not that the 30% should get some special dispensation or extra power. In fact today they probably have more, not less, legislative power than their numbers dictate. I also agree with you that under current reality the states as sovereign entities is a 95% obsolete concept that hurts more than it helps.

My point was entirely that a democratic country which has two geographically and culturally isolated populations is a democratic country headed towards an acrimonious life, perhaps followed by an acrimonious divorce. The 90% of 70% is about geography. Millions of American citizens live a 4-hour drive from anything resembling a modern 21st century city with a modern 21st century economy, culture, and politics. And they rarely or never make that 4 hour drive. That’s a problem.

As amply demonstrated over history by e.g. the current Shia / Sunni issues in the Mideast and the currently quiescent Troubles in Northern Ireland. Once mutual incomprehension rises to the level of mutual violence, serious problems follow. It took ~80 years after the shooting began for the relatively calm and civilized Irish people to decide enough was enough. Even now we (and they) aren’t sure they’re really done killing each other over which tint of mainstream Christianity they prefer and the economic inequality that comes from the related discrimination.

It could easily take the relatively less civilized, more geographically spread out, and more heavily armed Americans a lot longer to calm back down. Think about that.

This is a future that’s worth taking active measures to avoid. What Clinton said in the second half of her “deplorables” comment was by far the smarter and more relevant part. Which got utterly drowned out in the sound-bite journalism.

This, plus the functionally similar economic inequality, is probably *the *political question most relevant to the Republic’s survival over the next 50 years. Just as managing the Cold War was *the *survival question of the 1945-1990 era.

We’re not presently equipped to handle this. There’s hardly even a vocabulary to talk about it.

Faux and Trump have poured accelerant on what was a smoldering fire. But the fire was there all along. And now we get to deal with it. Shouting with incomprehension at one another is not the way forward. Ask the Shias or Catholics how well that’s working for them.

[erislover]

Right now the disaffected right has a candidate and the disaffected left does not, but wait a few years and see what the Trump of the left looks like. Bernie Sanders was a relatively nice guy. The next one won’t be. And when he is treated like Trump—and he will be—there will be a reckoning.

The calm progressive voices on youtube I heard not six months ago are not even aware they’re spitting on their webcams in their fury at the state of the Democratic party in October, 2016. They’re not scared of Trump’s words. They’re furious at Clinton’s actions. Go ask them.

In case you didn’t notice the state of affairs in the US in the last year because you’re all so busy patting yourselves on the back for being so reasonable and calm and collected for your completely reasonable and calm and collected fear that a real estate guy is going to nuke the entire world, let me summarize some important points for you:

1. “whites” just took a federal building in protest and were let off; they didn’t do it “for” white people, they’re just pissed
2. “blacks” just burned down buildings and were excused; they didn’t do it “for” black people, they’re just pissed
3. “by any means necessary” initiated physical violence at a political rally egged on by a public school teacher; they didn’t do it “for” anyone, they’re just pissed

BLM “leadership” is already subverted by the same kind of idiots that subverted OWS, but sad for you, you clowns never fucking learn: the rank and file will not follow you around like dogs forever. If a dictatorship in the middle east can’t pull it off what makes you think some busybody politician in the US will manage?—Because she just says we’re stronger together… somehow? America’s already great, because it is good??? Go talk to those three groups up there and see if they’re falling for the propaganda you are. Go ahead. Go to one of these “anti-nazi” BAMN events and tell them America is already great. Hang around the next rage-induced protest at police officers killing citizens and explain it to them. Head on down to the Trump rally and lay it out in, what do you think, short sentences with small words? Will that do it? Chortle chuckle chortle?

You’re all idiots. Actual fucking idiots. They are sharpening the metaphorical guillotine blades right now and you wonder if reading the fucking New York Times is going to help. No, dude. Telling a sniper shooting cops that was blown up by a remote controlled bomb is not going to be fixed by the fucking New York Times.

So yeah, these busybody politicians are going to tie it all together… because your sense of self-satisfaction gives them superpowers? At least the people on the right are smart enough now to not have a leader in the so-called “alt-right” which, incidentally, is composed primarily of e-celebrity parasites and undercover FBI or ATF. When the disaffected leftists learn this one weird trick… oh man. Your dreams are going to come crashing down very suddenly.

One of two things is going to happen if you keep shilling for the status quo and pretend it is reasonable. Either these groups of angry people are going to fight because the race-baiting media has succeeded, or these groups of angry people are going to cooperate because the internet showed them that despite a lot of pointless differences only people in pointless sitcoms and pointless university programs care about they have a common enemy.

As far as I can tell, that common enemy is exactly like at least three quarters of the people in this thread.

I don’t know which of the many countries you don’t want to live in that America will look like, but it is going to be one of them, and it will have absolutely, positively, 100%, without a doubt, unquestionably, provably, nothing on earth to do with Donald Trump.

Please ban me, I’m done with this place.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@erislover

Right now the disaffected right has a candidate and the disaffected left does not, but wait a few years and see what the Trump of the left looks like. Bernie Sanders was a relatively nice guy. The next one won’t be. And when he is treated like Trump—and he will be—there will be a reckoning.

I didn’t understand most of your post, but it occurs to me that a “Trump of the left” is a tad unlikely, if he or she takes the form of “blame the rich for all your problems” (analogous to Trump’s blaming of immigrants). It’s hard to get Americans angry at te rich because they’ve been sold the idea that they too will be rich someday. Similarly, it’s hard to sell the idea of taxing the rich (for a redistribution of wealth) or regulating the rich (t keep them from manipulating the system) to a public that’s embraced that idea that taxation and regulation are inherently evil concepts.

Seriously, try using a phrase like “redistribution of wealth” as I just did. Will it generate a reflexive negative response? I’m sure it does.

Please ban me, I’m done with this place.

Well, maybe you can take a breather until November 9th.

[jayjay]

<Sordid Lives>Would ya like a Valium?</SL>

[octopus]

@erislover

Right now the disaffected right has a candidate and the disaffected left does not, but wait a few years and see what the Trump of the left looks like. Bernie Sanders was a relatively nice guy. The next one won’t be. And when he is treated like Trump—and he will be—there will be a reckoning.

The calm progressive voices on youtube I heard not six months ago are not even aware they’re spitting on their webcams in their fury at the state of the Democratic party in October, 2016. They’re not scared of Trump’s words. They’re furious at Clinton’s actions. Go ask them.

In case you didn’t notice the state of affairs in the US in the last year because you’re all so busy patting yourselves on the back for being so reasonable and calm and collected for your completely reasonable and calm and collected fear that a real estate guy is going to nuke the entire world, let me summarize some important points for you:

1. “whites” just took a federal building in protest and were let off; they didn’t do it “for” white people, they’re just pissed
2. “blacks” just burned down buildings and were excused; they didn’t do it “for” black people, they’re just pissed
3. “by any means necessary” initiated physical violence at a political rally egged on by a public school teacher; they didn’t do it “for” anyone, they’re just pissed

BLM “leadership” is already subverted by the same kind of idiots that subverted OWS, but sad for you, you clowns never fucking learn: the rank and file will not follow you around like dogs forever. If a dictatorship in the middle east can’t pull it off what makes you think some busybody politician in the US will manage?—Because she just says we’re stronger together… somehow? America’s already great, because it is good??? Go talk to those three groups up there and see if they’re falling for the propaganda you are. Go ahead. Go to one of these “anti-nazi” BAMN events and tell them America is already great. Hang around the next rage-induced protest at police officers killing citizens and explain it to them. Head on down to the Trump rally and lay it out in, what do you think, short sentences with small words? Will that do it? Chortle chuckle chortle?

You’re all idiots. Actual fucking idiots. They are sharpening the metaphorical guillotine blades right now and you wonder if reading the fucking New York Times is going to help. No, dude. Telling a sniper shooting cops that was blown up by a remote controlled bomb is not going to be fixed by the fucking New York Times.

So yeah, these busybody politicians are going to tie it all together… because your sense of self-satisfaction gives them superpowers? At least the people on the right are smart enough now to not have a leader in the so-called “alt-right” which, incidentally, is composed primarily of e-celebrity parasites and undercover FBI or ATF. When the disaffected leftists learn this one weird trick… oh man. Your dreams are going to come crashing down very suddenly.

One of two things is going to happen if you keep shilling for the status quo and pretend it is reasonable. Either these groups of angry people are going to fight because the race-baiting media has succeeded, or these groups of angry people are going to cooperate because the internet showed them that despite a lot of pointless differences only people in pointless sitcoms and pointless university programs care about they have a common enemy.

As far as I can tell, that common enemy is exactly like at least three quarters of the people in this thread.

I don’t know which of the many countries you don’t want to live in that America will look like, but it is going to be one of them, and it will have absolutely, positively, 100%, without a doubt, unquestionably, provably, nothing on earth to do with Donald Trump.

Please ban me, I’m done with this place.

Extreme events get attention and air because they are extreme. The vast majority of folks in this country are alright. But that isn’t newsworthy because it doesn’t attract eyeballs. No one wants to tune in and hear stuffs cruising along. People want excitement but that does mean that the perception of reality becomes skewed.