There’s not enough potential immigrants to worry about the effect on national policy. What I don’t want is a minority who advocates (and attempts) for a violent overthrow of the government to shove their views down the throats of the majority.
158 million adults say they would like to immigrate to the US if they could. How many votes in key states was the last election decided by?
But it’s a hypothetical anyway. If you thought there would be enough immigrants to change national policy, and they were likely to change it in ways you oppose, would you still support open borders?
158 million would like to immigrate. Doesn’t mean they can. Secondly, assuming they will all vote the same way is a hypothetical of ridiculous proportions. Let’s deal in the real world.
You don’t need to assume they’d all come in reality or all vote the same way. Just that enough would disagree with you to make a difference. You know a small number of votes can have a big effect. In the real world many if not most countries have very conservative views compared to the US, and so do immigrants from those countries.
Yes.
You fix now, what needs fixing now.
Ok, I’ll play…can you give me your qualifications for immigration? What makes for a good/bad immigrant. And are they the same for refugees? If not why not?
Fair enough. It’s your funeral…
So here we are in Great Debates…you ask a question. I give you an answer. And your response is “it’s your funeral”???
This was fun, we should do it again sometime!
Okay. My point is, there are good reasons for opposing unrestricted immigration other than economic ones.
“Because they might join the other political party” seems like a petty one to me.
IMO you either trust in the voice of the people or you don’t. I have faith that my political beliefs can stand up to scrutiny. And if they can’t, then I either have to adjust my belief or strengthen my argument.
Personally I like having rights and living in a safe country. I’m not enthusiastic at the idea of inviting in people who’d consider me a second class citizen or fair game for harassment. And if you can’t persuade half of your fellow citizens to support your views, what makes you think you’ll have better luck persuading immigrants?
Of course. Because I don’t want to see these people suffer and die just so I can feel superior to them. Unlike some elephant mascot proponents I know.
Do you really think we should restrict immigration based on the political views of the immigrants? That sounds like McCarthyism at best, and potentially much worse.
I believe that DemonTree is from Great Britain and is talking about immigration in general, not specific to the US.
I may be naive, but I don’t see immigrants coming to a new country just to change it into their old country. What’s the point? Why not stay where you are? Immigrants come to new countries because it offers something they can’t get at home. Sure there are religious and cultural issues that need to be addressed. But to paraphrase you, if you can’t get half of your country folk on your side maybe you need a better argument.
Yes I am. And why wouldn’t you want to restrict immigration of people who literally enjoy seeing others suffer and die? Seriously.
Because I don’t believe that to be true.
No, of course not. Do you think that hypothetical is particularly relevant?
In any case, just because I think immigrants should be welcome as a general rule doesn’t mean I don’t think we should make an effort to weed out those who are actively intent on harming our country.
Some come for greater freedom, some come to escape from war or other dangers, most come for the economic opportunity. Wanting to get rich != wanting to adopt a different culture or social mores. And like it or not, people bring their culture with them. With a low level of immigration they will have to integrate and probably gradually change their views, but that’s not necessarily so with a high level. Think how long it has taken to get eg. equal rights and respect for women, or acceptance for gay people. I don’t want to have that fight all over again. And the other aspect is that people with fewer ties to each other will not be so keen on a high level of social security. Immigrant countries usually have more libertarian views.
Sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to @DrCube. I’m not worried about not being able to get people on my side because I’m not the one who believes half my fellow citizens are some kind of sociopath.
No, you apparently instead believe that half of non-citizens are sociopaths.
Certainly not. I do think people brought up in different countries learn different values, and bring those values with them to some extent if they move.
People in the US and UK had different values in the past, too, and those took time to change.