What caste are Hare Krishnas?

[mbh]

1. Suppose you are a person of non-Indian ancestry.
2. You convert to the Hare Krishna faith.
3. You move to India.
4. You meet one of those Hindu fundamentalists who claim that caste identity is vitally important to the religion.

How would you be classified?

On a related note, what caste were the gurus who moved from India to the USA and started the American branch of the sect?

[Analogue_Skywalker]

@mbh

On a related note, what caste were the gurus who moved from India to the USA and started the American branch of the sect?

The ISKCON (Hare Krsna ) movement was brought to America by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Prior to adopting the life of a vanaprastha, in 1950, he was married with children, and owned a small pharmaceutical business.

I would say that he was Brahmin, when he died, but imagine he was closer to Vaishya, but I’ll admit I know next to nothing about the caste system. So I don’t know if this is possible.

Temple monks are commonly refered to as Brahmin as are the Gurus

[Captain_Amazing]

You’re not Indian, so you’re not a member of any caste at all.

[Johanna]

I was once friends with a couple who belonged to ISKCON but lived in their own place, wore ordinary clothes, dealt dope, and interacted with non-Krsna people like me. The existence of dissident people like this demolishes stereotypes. They told me that all ISKCON initiates are reclassified as Brahmin. (Or should I say “recastified”?) They have to go through an ancient Vedic fire ceremony (I was once present at one) for their initiation. Then they have the status of dvija ‘twice born’ and can wear the sacred Brahmin thread. Prior to that, I don’t know what caste the novices or postulants are considered, but

I have heard that traditionally all non-Hindu foreigners were considered mleccha, impure, and therefore, I imagine, no-caste. Casteless, excluded from the system. I would welcome a Hindu Doper’s account of it, though.

The Tamil poet Bharatiyar (1882-1921), considered the greatest Tamil poet of the modern era, worked with Gandhi for demolishing caste boundaries, and promoting harmony between different religions, as well as Indian independence. Bharatiyar was also a male feminist at a time when that was unheard of. He came from a Tamil Brahmin family, but was ostracized by them when he began administering the Brahmin initiation and sacred thread to low-caste people. He was an outright iconoclast, a rather brave dissident, and a hell of a poet.

[Johanna]

I forgot to mention one important thing: Women of ISKCON do not get the Brahmin initiation and sacred thread, AFAIK. It’s only for guys. So what does that say about the caste status, or lack of one, for female ISKCON members? I googled and found that some Hindu women do get these. It is denied to ISKCON women, because their sect teaches “Women–Materially Speaking–Are Less Intelligent than Men” :mad: I’d tell them where to stuff their misogyny, then they’d really call me impure. Just another homophobic, patriarchal, misogynistic sect. Not all Hinduism is like that, and in fact ISKCON denies being Hindu at all.

Oh, and get a load of this: http://www.vaisnavi.com/v2/articles/second_class_citizens2.php

I have no women bosses. There are none where I work, just some dizzy bimbos. My realization is that women are definitely second class citizens and the Vedic version is correct. It is a sad day when the movement bows to the dikes and lesbians who are behind all this women’s rights crap. I think you fellows are in big maya about women and all this equal rights crap.

:mad:

I went and googled some more, and found an unpublished report of an internal ISKCON debate that took place in 1988

whether or not women can be brahmanas [of the priestly caste]. Some said that women belong to a certain varna [caste] by qualification, i.e. a brahmani, or woman brahmana. Others argued that women are not members of any varna, but are categorized along with sudras, the lowest caste. Some suggested that Srila Prabhupada gave brahminical initiation to women just to pacify them, but it did not constitute real brahminical initiation.

The discussion about the role of women in ISKCON did not reach any conclusion. Many favored a liberal viewpoint, and many preferred a more traditional, doctrinal view. Thus the questions remain unresolved.

So I guess that is probably as close to an answer to my question as I will get.