Okay, someone’s going to have to explain this to me. I’ve been using “anymore” in this way my entire life (that’s 46 years). So has pretty much everyone I know in person. But lately I see people, mostly online, claiming it’s “so very very wrong” somehow, so I’ve finally been moved to ask about it. Because from the way people react, I agree that maybe we are “using a different version of English.”
“Anymore” basically means “now, as opposed to the past.” Thus:
I never listen to music anymore = I never listen to music now, unlike the past, when I did.
Movies are so violent anymore = Movies are so violent now, unlike the past, when they weren’t.
If the first sentence is appropriate, how can the second sentence be wrong? “Anymore” is being used in both sentences IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY! There is absolutely no difference in usage. In both sentences, it means, “now, as opposed to the past,” just like it always has.
I don’t mean to pick on Procrustus, or on Cat Whisperer. But I would really appreciate some explanation of why the second sentence is “very, very wrong,” because I honestly, genuinely don’t understand what the complaint is.
Thanks, newme - I know it’s very, very wrong, but I have a hard time putting it into words. It’s like some people using the word “black” when the rest of the world uses the word “white.”
I think that usage of whenever makes perfect sense, the connotation is just slightly different. In the “whenever” sentence, the statement is less definite, it’s essentially a softener. It’s saying “I got it when I went to the store (but I don’t remember exactly when that was).”
Now, you can argue that this is meaningless fluff because the exact time isn’t given in either sentence, but it makes sense.
Hmm. At this point, maybe we do have to go with the “different version of English” explanation–perhaps it’s regional?–because while I appreciate the effort, that explanation only confuses me more.
Of course you can’t substitute “longer” for “no longer”–they’re two different expressions. One contains a negative and the other doesn’t. Obviously removing the “no” changes its meaning. But there’s no difference between the “anymore” in “I never listen to music anymore” and the “anymore” in “Movies are so violent anymore.” It’s exactly the same word.
I’m really not trying to be obtuse, but it sounds like you’re saying: You can’t replace a term with its opposite, therefore you can’t replace a term with precisely the same term. I just don’t get it. As I say, I’ve been using “anymore” in this way my entire life, and a sentence like “Movies are so violent anymore” sounds perfectly correct–dare I say “cromulent”? – to me.
For the record, my wife talks the same way. And she does eat at that restaurant anymore!
Well, that would make sense. I was born, raised, and still live in Indiana. I guess I had no idea this usage was so isolated.
I hope I haven’t come off as too argumentative about this; I just find it terribly interesting. As I do most linguistics stuff. I’ve read enough prescriptivist versus descriptivist discussions, both here and elsewhere, to know that different dialects do things differently. I’ve just always found it kind of weird that some people seem to feel so strongly about this (in this thread alone, we’ve had “very very wrong,” “it breaks my brain,” and just now “it’s horrible!”), but no one has ever been able to give me any reason beyond, “That expression you’ve been using your entire life? It’s wrong!”
But “when” and “whenever” are not interchangeable - “when” can indicate one time or every time; “whenever” cannot indicate a single time; it always means every time.
Here’s an example - “Hey, great blouse! Where did you get it?”
“I got it when I went to Mexico.”
Would you seriously say, “I got it whenever I went to Mexico,” indicating that every time you went to Mexico, you got that particular blouse? That’s the usage that breaks my brain.
I can see the point Jragon and MegaBee are making actually. If you aren’t entirely sure when you went to Mexico it could make sense to use whenever to import some vagueness to the timeline.
But, my friend doesn’t use it in that manner; he uses it every time when he should be using “when.”
Well, I’m only at the bottom of page one and have already found myself nodding in agreement over at least half of these responses, which probably means I am a teeming, roiling mass of rage, or that my goat has long since been gotten.
But I’ll add today’s irrational mundane thing that makes me irrationally enraged but doesn’t seem to bother anyone else:
I’m driving somewhere. I slow down to stop at a red light. I look at the cars around me. I get really angry at people who leave at least a car length, maybe two, in between themselves and the stop line or the next car. I kind of understand why: if someone rear ends you, you won’t be pushed out into traffic or into the next car, which would then be your fault. Yet, this crap creates gridlock, especially at intersections of a main road and a secondary road, where the red light for the secondary road is really long. If only two cars can get through, then we are all going to be sitting there in the intersection a hell of a lot longer. It’s happened to me twice today. If everyone in line at the light had pulled up just three feet, at least two or three more cars could have gotten through the green light.
Pull the fuck up! No, you don’t have to kiss the next car’s bumper, nor do you have to stop in the middle of the crosswalk. But for the love of Jesus, puppy dogs, and all that is holy, you do not need two fucking car lengths of space between you and the next car. You just don’t. Gah!
:: breathes deeply, starts to calm down ::
Yeah, I know. Nobody else cares. But it fills me with rage.
My dog is pretty friendly, but she can be aggressively affectionate. Not all dogs take kindly to that. I will pull her away because my dog is the asshole, not because I think yours is. I’m trying to keep you and your dog safe. If I’ve read my dog’s body language and she seems more aggressive or defensive than curious, she gets pulled aside and made to sit-stay while the people/dog(s) pass by. In general, my dog is pleasantly friendly to other dogs & people unless they rush up to her or run up behind her. Then she goes into protecting me mode and all hell breaks loose. Make her feel threatened and she will fuck one of us up. Running past her, especially from behind her, is a really good way to do that. I pull her well out of the way of runners and bicyclists.
And yes, also, I wouldn’t want to blow your pace if you are running.
I broke my finger a couple months ago, and had tennis elbow in the opposite arm. This made it very difficult to wrangle my 75-pounder. So there’s this woman in my neighborhood who thinks it’s a terrible abuse that I won’t let my dog run unleashed in a public space, like a school playground (where she turns her pitbull loose). Every time she approaches with her beautiful, but horribly poorly trained dog, mine goes apeshit trying to play. One day I managed to explain to this woman that I’ve been working on dominance issues and every time I had to correct my dog with my broken finger or my tennis elbow, it caused me excruciating pain, so I’d rather just avoid socializing until I’m healed up. She hasn’t spoken to me since, as if my broken finger never healed. :smack: (Which is sort of okay with me because, even though I adore her dog, I think she’s a bit of a twit and don’t care to be friendly with her.)
I have never once heard this in Ireland. Ever. I haven’t spent any serious amount of time up North, so it could be used there, but I’ve never heard a Nordie say it. The only time I’ve ever even seen it in print is on here.
Like An Gadaí says, though, I’ve heard ‘whenever’ used to mean ‘when’. Mainly by people from the North.
– to me.