And without riding mounts of any kind (don’t try to ride a llama). Across a vast, high, rugged mountain range, with countless towns linked only by rope bridges.
Good to know that all that is needed to count something a “success” is sustainability.
Personally, I like things like:
Meritocracy
Sexual equality
Modern technology (modern medicine, the internet, etc.) including the end of the 30% infant mortality rate
Representative government
Human rights standards
General freedom
It isn’t random happenstance that these didn’t come into being until socialist/tribal economies came to an end.
That certainly clarifies things! We can now state definitively that such systems that prevail in, say, Sweden are not “socialistic” because they still exist.
I want to visit Sweden and see how different it is. I bet I’ll be happily surprised with the change.
By stone age standards, I think it certainly counts as a success. You need to compare it to other neolithic societies. The idea of any “progress” in human affairs is a very modern (and partly Marxist) one. Even China, a high civilization, was for most of its history uninterested in “progress”; everybody knew what the perfect society looked like: China. At any time when it is blessed with a strong dynasty and a good emperor.
Best answer?
That was so-called “state socialism” or “Marxist-Leninist-Stalinism.” By contrast, “socialism” is a broadly used and nearly undefined term.
Since capitalism without a little socialism tends to topple into ruin, that implies that a good system has aspects of both.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. About as silly as the “corporations make everything” line one often hears.
Do you have a cite for this?
[QUOTE=foolsguinea]
Since capitalism without a little socialism tends to topple into ruin, that implies that a good system has aspects of both.
[/QUOTE]
Why yes…that’s exactly what it implies. Just as the inverse is true…socialism without capitalism fails miserably and falls to ruin. I happen to believe that we have a decent mix in the US (not, IMHO an OPTIMAL mix, but a decent mix that works for the majority)…and in Europe for that matter, though the sliding scale goes a bit more socialist than I, personally am comfortable with. But then, their system doesn’t have to work for me…it simply has to work well for the folks who live there. That’s the beauty of such systems…they simply have to work well enough for the majority of their citizens for them to be content with the system they have.
-XT
Ancient Ruins and Archaeology (aka Citadels of Mystery) by L. Sprague de Camp.
BG’s correct, but it’s important to understand, too, that the Inca were astoundingly brutal, had no enemies or rivals whatsoever beyond a few local tribes, and fell apart the moment they had contact with others.
I dunno about “astoundingly brutal,” just better at war than their neighbors, that’s how empires happen. The Inca gods, at any rate, had little hunger for human sacrifice.
And it took Old World “others” to bring them down, just as they brought down every native state and culture. The Inca flute bands could have laughed at a southward-expanding Aztec Empire.
Here’s TVTropes Useful Notes, FWIW:
That’s what socialism needs to work! Coca leaves! 
The moral of the story, though, is if you live in Mesopotamia don’t put beer on your tab…especially in winter! This aphorism rivals ‘never get into a land war in Asia’, and is only slightly less weighty as ‘never gamble with a Sicilian when death is on the line!’
-XT
No one ever seems to remark on the third classic blunder: “Never enter into a contest your enemy designed and prepared.”
It’s not as catchy…plus it doesn’t have a lot to do with beer. Also, it’s never been in a mass market movie as far as I know. Get someone like Bruce Willis or Chuck Norris (snort) to say it as a tag line in a movie and that will all change…
-XT
From whence did you get your allegedly standard definition of socialism? It is not so in the reference materials I’m looking at.
Other than that we’ve seen that nations stagnate technologically and in terms of civil rights when they turn to Socialism (Cuba, the USSR, etc.) and that there’s clear reasons why the modern world went this direction.
Gosh, when you put it like that, it all seems so simple! for a fleeting moment.
I saw your additional posts explaining part of the 80 percent tax. It still doesn’t add up. I lived in Denmark with a Danish family away from the city for a short time long ago. At that time the tax charged on anything you bought was indeed 15%. Tennessee is not far behind. I think we squeak through at under ten percent, but think of all of the other items that are taxed in the USA!
Further, the family that I lived with said no one in Denmark had to buy insurance ever. When you were sick, you saw the doctor, you had surgery if you needed it, and so on. When you had your baby, you didn’t have to worry about paying hospital expenses. There were none. When you grew old, you didn’t have to pay for nursing care. There were NO insurance companies involved. You got the medicines you needed whether they cost seven thousand dollars a shot or not. No cost. They did not pay 80% though. It was at 40% when I was there. The rate may change some, but it is not what you claimed.
The Danes, and I think maybe other Scandanavians, are known for a strong work ethic. It is certainly not tied to the church anymore as most Scandanavians aren’t tied to the church.
For two or three years recently, the Danes were always at the top of the “happiest country in the world” list. I just haven’t seen the list lately.
The family that I lived with was affluent by American standards. Their family- owned business was a block long and four stories high. It was a “shop” not a warehouse. It included an apartment and a garden in the center.
Which one of those do you think is not found in Denmark? Surely, there are people living in one room apartments. I did right here in the USA when I was in my twenties. Haven’t you ever heard of an efficiency apartment? There are some near me. What I didn’t see in Denmark were people sleeping on the street. There are some of these near me too. We also have a friend who lives in the back of a truck.
Nyah. http://www.thefarmcommunity.com/
National Geographic magazine has found them interesting enough to do pages on them – maybe more than once. The Farm is forty years old now.
There are some Dopers, including Rune, who know much more about the situation in Denmark now. I know that it has changed, but not in the horrible way that some of you have described.
The USA has made use of socialism for centuries. Fire departments, police departments, libraries, schools, public works. Yes, that is socialism.
I’m sorry for those of you who truly don’t recognize the difference in socialism and communism. (Although I have had friends who lived happily as members of both parties.)
Not really. They certainly aren’t as important as they used to be, and they’ve evolved quite a bit in the past few decades (communal child raising, for instance, is dead), but they still have a place in Israeli society. Some three quarters of Israel’s agricultural output is produced through various communal models; “agribusiness” does not exist here past the local level.
“Up to”. Reality falls far short of that. The basic rate, which can go up to about 33 or 34% (mine is around 29% - it is based on where you live), is on your first 384 600 SEK (2010). In 2010 the average wage was 365 930 SEK, so the average earner wasn’t even reaching the first bracket, which adds 20%. There’s then another bracket that adds a further 5% that kicks in above 545 200 SEK.
So if you choose to live in an area with a high tax rate AND earn 1.5 times the national average you can slip into a bracket that taxes at around 59% for all income in that bracket (note: not the income lower than that bracket).
Which is a pretty long way away from having an effective tax rate that gets you anywhere close to, well, anything you wrote about.
https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=files/sve/eng/i07.asp&c=sve&l=eng&m=02
http://www.oecd.org/document/37/0,3746,en_33873108_33873822_47446053_1_1_1_1,00.html