What could be done on an Airplane! scenario?

Factual Questions
41

From the perspective of this non-pilot, it looks like one of the hardest parts of landing the plane might be being able to position the plane so as to come down and hit the runway at the right spot. Does autopilot account for that?

ISTM it would be a lot easier if you were landing in a desert or something similar where it was just a matter of not crashing into the ground. I can see autopilot taking care of that.

IOW, I can see autopilot accounting for where the ground is more than I can see autopilot accounting for where the runway is. The plane measures elevation anyway. The runway is just an artificial demarcation.

But again, I know nothing about flying a plane.

42

There is a system available called the Instrument Landing System (ILS). It depends on a radio beacon positioned appropriately on the runway, and not all runways are so equipped. Most runways at major airports are, though, so assume ILS is available.

It consists of two separate radio signals - the localizer (giving the left/right information) and the glideslope (the up/down information). This information can be displayed to the pilots, who follow it while flying manually, or it can be fed to the autopilot, which will fly the plane accordingly. In itself, though it’s not enough to actually land the plane.

Autoland does exist, but requires suitably equipped runways and aircraft, and suitably certified pilots. In the Airplane! scenario it might be the best chance, but it’s not trivial to do, and I think most pilots would prefer to hand fly where possible. We really need to get away from the idea that the autopilot is some sort of magical “fly the plane” machine that removes all need for knowledge and training. It’s really just a labour-saving device.

43

How would that person do it without getting into the cockpit? All anyone could do would be to leave texts for their loved ones and hope death would be quick.

But at least the “Airplane!” scenario can’t happen anymore, not in the US at least. Airlines no longer serve meals here.

44

Well, whatever you decide, good luck. We’re all counting on you…

45

That sounds extremely dangerous. The “Miracle on the Hudson” situation you describe was nicknamed specifically because it a dangerous landing.

What are your credentials for suggesting this course of action?

46

And tell the milkman: NO MORE CHEESE!!

47

The novice sitting in the pilot’s seat doesn’t need to know where all the dials and knobs are, he needs to be in radio communication with an expert who knows all that stuff. The expert is the one flying the plane via remote control, the guy in the seat just needs to be able to keep calm and follow directions precisely.

Especially if the directions are “Here’s how you set the autopilot to take you to an airport with the correct navigation whatevers for autolanding, and here’s how you turn on the autolander, when it’s time to turn on the autolander I’ll let you know.”

48

Better hope that you haven’t run out of coffee.

49

Strong, hot, and black.

50

…leg 'er down a smack 'em yak 'em!

51

Recall an anecdote about Chinese airlines in the 70’s or early 80’s. Apparently, the pilot came out to chat with the passengers. The copilot came out a little while later, and the door slammed shut behind him. Oops, these doors were specifically hijack-proof to prevent people who wanted to escape by hijack in the totalitarian days. The passengers got to watch the pilot and copilot chopping their way back into the cockpit with a fire axe, while the plane carried on with autopilot.

Landing on water is particularly tricky. the idea of landing - as anyone learning on a small plane finds out - is to keep fiddling with angle of attack, nose up more and more, to end up flying level while the speed bleeds off. It’s tricky - pull too much, and you’re 30 feet up and suddenly too slow to stay flying. Don’t pull up enough and the plane is still going pretty fast when it makes contact with the ground, and likely dropping pretty fast still.

Over water, the low-hanging engines will likely make contact first. (No landing gear). Too fast, or dropping too fast, and you stop dead as they dig in and the nose digs down - likely caving in the windshield, then quickly flooding the cabin. Sand just grabs you faster an stops the plane faster.

There was a hijacked plane in Africa that ended up runing out of fuel off the Comoros Islands
( the Hijack and Crash of Ethiopia Flight 961 - YouTube ). You can see the pilot tried to land, but the wingtip then the one engine dig into the water while going to fast. The aircraft slews around and breaks up. Quite a few people died.

Based on the story of the Gimli glider people, when their aircarft ran out of fuel over Manitoba, they had to stand on the pedals and both haul on the controls to fly without hydraulic assist. Careful control was difficult.

52

Assuming it wasn’t sudden death and so the door was unlocked.

53

Hi everyone,

First-time poster and I wanted to weigh in on this subject. I’m an air traffic controller of nearly 20 years and this “Airplane” scenario is an inevitable question that comes up when people hear what my occupation is (usually it’s right after “Isn’t that REALLY stressful?”).

I’d just like to point out that pilot training/learning how to fly a plane is NOT a part of the training to become an air traffic controller. Sure, there are some ATCs who have their pilot licenses, but that’s due to their own personal interests and something they choose to do with their free time, not something that is part of the required skillset or knowledge to be an ATC. I personally don’t have the faintest idea of how to fly a plane. Actually, thinking back, I just realized that it’s been quite a few years since I’ve even been on a plane. I went to Europe with my wife back in 2008, and I think that’s the last time I flew.

Just taking a quick mental inventory, I’m counting around sixteen people on my crew, and off the top of my head I think one of them has his pilot license, and his license is to fly single engine prop planes, which is light-years away from a large jet.

I am extremely familiar with aircraft characteristics and performance. I know how well certain aircraft perform and what I can and can’t get the pilots to do in a pinch. I tell the pilot to do something, and he makes it happen. When I tell him to reduce to 250 knots, I know it will take a few sweeps for him to get there, but I couldn’t tell you what he’s doing on the control panel to make it happen. Well, to be fair–from just being around aviation for quite a few years, I do have some idea–I’m sure it’s a combination of throttling down and flaps, but how much of each, when to do it, whether the order matters, etc–it’s all greek to me.

Landing a plane? Shoot, I have no idea.

Anyways, I’m not trying to be unsettling. I’m just trying to dispel this myth that ATC can talk a beginner down. because by default most of us don’t know how to fly either.

By the way–in my almost 20 year career so far, there have been zero “Airplane” situations in which someone would have needed to be talked down.

54

Yes, I don’t think an ATC guy alone is going to be the best person to coach the novice, unless they also happen to be a pilot. And even then they probably won’t be qualified for the particular plane that happens to be in trouble. But I’m pretty sure the airline has some expert pilots they can call who can drive out to the tower and give the novice instructions.

55

If there’s time, and if the aircraft is very close to an airport, perhaps that could be plausible.

Keep in mind, though, that a control tower is just one of thee types of air traffic control facilities, and the type that will be in contact with the plane for the least amount of time. Once planes are airborne and on their way, a radar facility will take over the control of the aircraft, and these radar facilities are often states away from the planes they are talking to and often located far from any airport where an expert pilot might be located.

I work in a radar facility, not a control tower. The airspace that I work is about three hundred miles from where I’m sitting while I’m at work, and the closest airport with airline service from my radar facility is well over an hour’s drive away. If someone on a plane I was talking to keyed up and told me that they needed to land the plane and they didn’t know how to fly, I would not be able to tell them what to do. As you stated, my co-worker who can fly a Cessna could tell them how to do it in a Cessna, but if they’re in an airliner he wouldn’t know the procedures for it. If we called the airline and told them we needed an expert pilot from the closet airport, it would be over an hour’s drive, and an aircraft transitioning my airspace at cruising speed takes about five minutes to get through each sector.

56

Let me guess, you’re not a pilot.

A glass of water to set wings level? Laughable.

Landing at 100 mph (besides the fact that airspeed indicators are in knots, not mph)? 100 mph may well be below the stall speed of the aircraft (it’s certainly below the stall speed of a 737 in typical configuration and conditions).

Landing on water? Worst idea imaginable, unless your only other course of action is to crash into crowd of people, or the side of a building.

57

Even if you couldn’t get a pilot into the control room with you, though, Shirley you could get one on the radio (or phone or whatever), and relay them to the pilot?

58

Logistically, it’s possible, as we have telephones and radios. Realistically, I have no idea what the course of action would be. I don’t know if the airlines have people standing by that they can call in a pinch if something like that came up. I really don’t know. Also, as callous as it sounds, I have no idea where liability would come into play. Doing things “by the book” are a HUGE thing in ATC, and there is no “by the book” answer for this instance.

59

The glass of water is the closest thing to a reliable horizon or TC that the average joe can find and interpret .

Again, most Americans speak and think in MPH, not knots (1.15 mph)

Water is much more forgiving than solid ground.

And,when you are trying to fall out of the sky in a controlled and level attitude, you really don’'t mind that the wing stops flying (stalls) - YOU’RE TRYING TO GET IT TO STOP FLYING - THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF “LANDING”.

Or would you prefer to tell them to chop and drop?

60

No it isn’t. If you’re in a balanced turn the water will remain level with respect to the glass no matter what your angle of bank is.

That’s irrelevant. No instrument is going to give your speed in mph.

Not if you are in an aircraft it isn’t.

This is totally nonsensical. If you stall (and do nothing to recover) then you plummet to the ground and die. Which will have happened long before you get to this 100 mph figure you are talking about.

I have no idea what that means, but I’d prefer they did something which has a chance for them to live. Everything you’ve said will kill them.