[QUOTE=MGibson]
It’s always just a matter of perception. I just happen to perceive calling another group “less civilized” to be an insult.
Marc
[/QUOTE]
As some clear headed person said upthread, I think it really boils down to the social circles in which you move. If you’re exposed from a young age to high level movie executives, models, producers, music execs, agents, etc., then yes, you’ll more than likely hear a lot of conversations about money and work and fewer “civilized” discussions.
Starving Artist writes:
> Then, when you combine that with the well-known penchant on the part of
> Hollywood liberals for proselytising that Europe=superior; America=inferior, it
> becomes even more credible that she would say these things.
There is no such penchant. There are times when any American visiting or living in Europe (or any European visiting or living in the U.S.) makes offhand observations about the differences in American and European culture. In general, these are no more than offhand comments by someone who doesn’t have the background to make more precise comparisons. Trying to read deep meanings in these comments is a waste of time. Often these Americans visiting or living in Europe are actors (and they don’t particularly have to be liberal).
Have you ever visited or lived in Europe? Have you ever talked with Americans just back from Europe? All of them spend a lot of time making half-baked comments comparing the two places. Sometimes these comments are stupid criticisms of Europe based on too little evidence. Sometimes they are stupid criticisms of the U.S. based on too little evidence. I wouldn’t take an actor’s comments any more seriously than I would take those of any random American tourist just back from Europe.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
(emphasis mine)
Well, I think this clears up the question as to her stellar intelligence… :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
“The weather cold” is a perfectly cromulent phrase. There is an implied “is” between “weather” and “cold.” You normally see that construction in lists (such as she was making) and newspaper headlines (“London [is] ready for the Olympics”).
Just a friendly grammar lesson.
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
There is no such penchant. There are times when any American visiting or living in Europe (or any European visiting or living in the U.S.) makes offhand observations about the differences in American and European culture.
[/QUOTE]
Yes; curious how when that sort of thing comes out of the mouth of a Hollywood elite, it always happens to be disparaging towards Americans, except when interpreted by their most zealous apologists.
athelas writes:
> Yes; curious how when that sort of thing comes out of the mouth of a
> Hollywood elite, it always happens to be disparaging towards Americans,
> except when interpreted by their most zealous apologists.
No, their comments aren’t always disparging towards Americans. It’s just that conservatives dig through their comments and quote only the disparging ones. That’s how you prove your points - by selective quotation. I’m hardly an apologist for actors. I think that a lot of them are airheads and nearly all of them aren’t worth listening to.
No, we’re not digging through her comments…we’re addressing them in toto.
You and her other apologists in this thread are the ones engaging in selectivism.
She was alleged to have said that the British are more intelligent and civilized than Americans. It’s curious to me (well, maybe not so much) that the focus of her reported comments seems to have settled conveniently on the question of culture and civilization…which can at least be intellectually debated…and ignores the larger issue of her supposed comments regarding Americans’ inferior intelligence, which to me is the greater and more egregious (and more foolish) of her alleged comments.
Further, I have no doubt that should anyone make a similar comment disparaging either the intelligence or civilization of some other culture or people as compared to the U.S., he/she would be roundly disparaged around here by the very same people who are claiming no harm, no foul regarding what Gwyneth was alleged to have said about Americans.
Starving Artist writes:
> Further, I have no doubt that should anyone make a similar comment
> disparaging either the intelligence or civilization of some other culture or people
> as compared to the U.S., he/she would be roundly disparaged around here by
> the very same people who are claiming no harm, no foul regarding what
> Gwyneth was alleged to have said about Americans.
You have no doubt that that would happen? You mean that you’ve seen such things happen before many times? O.K., give me a dozen examples of cases where someone disparaged the intelligence or civilization of some non-American culture and then liberals disparged those people.
> Yes; curious how when that sort of thing comes out of the mouth of a
> Hollywood elite, it always happens to be disparaging towards Americans,
> except when interpreted by their most zealous apologists.
Always? Always? That’s a whole lot of times. According to you there are a whole lot of Hollywood liberals. Give me a hundred examples of statements by Hollywood lliberals who have said disparaging things about Americans.
Well it’s too late for her now, now that her head’s in a box on Stephen Colbert’s bookshelf. :eek:
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
Starving Artist writes:
> Further, I have no doubt that should anyone make a similar comment
> disparaging either the intelligence or civilization of some other culture or people
> as compared to the U.S., he/she would be roundly disparaged around here by
> the very same people who are claiming no harm, no foul regarding what
> Gwyneth was alleged to have said about Americans.
You have no doubt that that would happen?
[/quote]
Yes.
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
You mean that you’ve seen such things happen before many times?
[/quote]
Nope, never said it.
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
O.K., give me a dozen examples of cases where someone disparaged the intelligence or civilization of some non-American culture and then liberals disparged those people.
[/quote]
:: thinks for a second :: Nah.
Nice try, but I’m afraid you’re gonna have to go put words in someone else’s mouth and see if you can get a rebuttal. I’ve got better things to do.
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
>
Yes; curious how when that sort of thing comes out of the mouth of a
> Hollywood elite, it always happens to be disparaging towards Americans,
> except when interpreted by their most zealous apologists.
/quote]Always? Always? That’s a whole lot of times. According to you there are a whole lot of Hollywood liberals. Give me a hundred examples of statements by Hollywood lliberals who have said disparaging things about Americans.
[/QUOTE]
But on second thought, and seeing as how you seem to be making a habit of this, I wanna play after all. How’s about this…you answer similar demands, only for a change of pace I’ll only demand examples regarding things you actually said? Sound like fun? Okay, here goes…
Wendell Wagner writes:
Have you ever talked with Americans just back from Europe? All of them spend a lot of time making half-baked comments comparing the two places.
All of them? All of them? Give me 500 examples of people coming back from Europe and spending time making half-baked comments comparing the two places…and don’t forget, not a single returnee can be shown not to have made such comments.
Wendell Wagner writes:
It’s just that conservatives dig through their comments and quote only the disparging ones.
Conservatives do that? All of them? And no liberals do? Hah! I’d like 300 examples of conservatives digging through their opponents comments and quoting only the disparaging ones, and further I’d like 1,000 cites (since this is something liberals apparently never do) of liberals arguing every point raised by their opponents without cherry picking the ones they want to address.
Wendell Wagner writes:
That’s how you prove your points - by selective quotation.
The only way? It’s the only way? Well then, since that’s the only way we prove our points, how about only 100 examples of a conservative here proving his point only by selective quotation. Shouldn’t be too hard. (Oh, and while you’re at it, perhaps you could acknowledge that you did this very same thing yourself when you chose to zero in on Paltrow’s alleged comments regarding the comparative civilization between the two countries while ignoring the more salient point of her [so-called] comments stating that the British were much more intelligent than Americans?)
Now for the coup de grâce:
See how silly you look acting like this? Do you think I truly skewered you good with my silly interpretations of your words and demands for cites? Maybe it’s just my practical conservative nature, but when I hear people speaking of their beliefs, opinions and observations, I’m inclined to take them as such and only ask for cites when a factual and definitive proof actually exists. Perhaps you would do well to do the same.
You are the one who’s making the claim about what Hollywood liberals always say, Starving Artist. Either you know this because you’ve read lots of examples of this, or you have no examples of this, and you only make this claim because your favorite conservative commentator makes this claim and you don’t bother to look for evidence of anything he or she says. Do you or do you not have a lot of examples of Hollywood liberals making disparaging comments about Americans?
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
You are the one who’s making the claim about what Hollywood liberals always say, Starving Artist.
[/quote]
Since you’re the one dancing on the head of a pin and trying to make an issue out of the use of the word “always”, kindly point to where I said such a thing.
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
Either you know this because you’ve read lots of examples of this…
[/quote]
Or, had I made such a claim, it might also have been the result of forty years of observation–not only of things in print but on talk shows, at this or that rally, and comments/implications made during televised interviews.
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
…or you have no examples of this and you only make this claim because your favorite conservative commentator makes this claim and you don’t bother to look for evidence of anything he or she says.
[/QUOTE]
And who would that be, Wendell? I await your answer with bated breath as it will give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate your proclivity for jumping to erroneous conclusions and then treating those conclusions as fact, but I’m afraid it’ll be awhile before I can respond as I have a rather busy day ahead.
Cheers.
Starving Artist writes:
> Or, had I made such a claim, it might also have been the result of forty years of
> observation–not only of things in print but on talk shows, at this or that rally,
> and comments/implications made during televised interviews.
Forty years of observation, and yet you can’t cite a single example.