I don’t know why this question popped into my head but ever since it did its been buggin the heck outta me. Basically what I’m wondering is if there is some consistent qualia that 100 % blind ppl experience (I realize there are different degrees of blindness, so lets refer to someone who has had both of their eyeballs removed and replaced with fake ones).
Does someone who has never sensed light walk around all day in darkness? This is what I always thought growing up. Then it occurred to me that it is no more likely that they sense ‘black’ or darkness then it is that they sense ‘white’ or light. So this means they really just have no sense of light perception at all? Like non-existent?
I hope this thread is clear, please ask me more if its not. Also curious to see (no pun intended) if there are any blind dopers on the board.
A recent thread on this very topic: What do blind persons “see”?. Search in GQ for “blind” and limit to thread titles to find many previous discussions of similar issues.
I once had a friend who was blind from birth (he died in a fire many years ago). I asked him what colors he saw, but of course, he didn’t understand colors. He asked me to describe what different colors would feel, sound, smell and taste like. While not very scientific, and very subjective, it was an interesting exercise. I then asked him to describe what he “saw” in the same terms. I don’t remember my exact answers or his, but I do remember that his description of the color “blind” did not even partially match any of my descriptions.
I had two employees that were legally blind, but could see color. So the question needs to define what is meant by “blind” for the purposes of the O.P.
I have a friend, completely blind since birth, who says he does see dreams. He even described a couple of them to me, and they included color. Of course, there’s no way to know if the way he perceives, red, for instance, to be, is anything like red really is. Then again, there is a chance that no two people perceive color exactly the same way, so what? Also no way to know if what he ‘sees’ in dreams in anything like what we see in waking. But it seems to make him happy that he can see in his dreams.
I always wondered about that. If you could get into somebody’s head and see what they saw and were shocked to discover the sky was green - what you had always called blue, and grass was orange.
Perhaps someone who is truly color blind could explain their perception of the “color” of sky vs grass. It might give some perspective to what a blind person imagines as color.
DMark: I’m colorblind and it’s definitely not blindness. Essentially, my vision divides the visible spectrum into less segments than the vision of someone who’s not colorblind does.
Sorry about that. The reason I asked is that I looked up the definitions of “see”, “perception” and a few other words and it seems to me that someone that is born blind would have nothing to base color on, since light is an intergal part of seeing or perceiving color.
One other thing. Ray Charles was blinded when he was young. Many years ago, I heard him talk about his memories from before becoming blind. He said that he could remember the color red.
What I would like to know is, as someone who is colorblind, I would imagine you still see different tones…from black to grey, from light to dark, from thick to thin…I don’t know how you would describe it. You do know if you have one black sock, and one white one? I am really interested in hearing your description…for instance, how does someone who is color blind first learn they are color blind? What comment or lack of ability made you aware of the fact?
I just figure that this partial lack of a visual sense might be a clue to the “vision” of the blind.
Erm - colorblindness does NOT mean one cannot see color. Only a very small fraction of the (10% of males) people who are colorblind cannot see any color at all. Colorblindness usually entails that one would be able to see all the color around, but not the differences between different shades of some color. For instance, some purples may look blue to a colorblind person. Some shades of red look green and vice versa, but only the “intermediate” shades, not vivid colors, although I suppose that would vary from person to person. It’s almost as if your perception of color is less ‘detailed’, and less frequently, outright wrong. Many colorblind people go through life without ever knowing of their affliction, because in most cases it really does not drastically affect your life. First learning about when you are colorblind could come from a color vision test, or you saying “I like this blue sock” and then having someone tell you it’s purple. It’s not as if your ‘blue sock’ turns out to be blood red.
I have a cousin and when we were children my aunts and uncles and grandparents all thought this cousin was slow cause he could learn his colors. I remember that he grouped a box of crayons by what he thought were all the same colors. That should have been a hint to someone he was color blind or color limited. Anyway he found out he was color blind in high school with a simple test like the link below. Anyway it was incredibly wrong how he was treated as a young child cause the adults around were not able to understand he simple couldn’t see the entire range of colors.
Here’s an excercize. Stare straight ahead, but concentrate on objects in your peripheral vision. How far to the side does your vision go? What is the “edge” like? Wiggle your fingers out there while moving your hand past the “edge.”
Now here’s the big question: what do you see BEYOND the edge of your peripheral vision? In particular, what color is it? (And in a pitch dark room, is the “beyond the edge” stuff black, or is it somehow just non-existant?)
Obviously we’re all “blind” in the region where there’s no retinal cells to receive light. To experience genuine blindness, just try to look at objects behind you without turning your head.
To answer the OP: I was asked many times as a child (I’m one-eyed BTW) what I perceived with my non-eye. Did I just see black or what? My standard answer was: “What do you see with your big toe?”
Yeah excellent. Except that we all know what things look like. Blind people don’t. So we can imagine or remember the view behind us. What do blind people imagine?
