I have sort of skimmed here so forgive if I repeat the statements of others.
I feel that one cannot be a “good” or “bad” Christian anymore than one could be a “good” or “bad” Buddhist.
To claim yourself as being Christian, you accept Jesus’s teachings and try to abide by them. Some folks may be more successful than others. If someone is claiming to be the same religion as you, but acts differently, then maybe they have a different understanding. As my understanding of Christianity goes, the peoper response is to “turn the other cheek” you know what you are doing is good. You may gently remind that person what the teachings of Christ are, but, so long as you are happy and in your actions you believe you are rightious, does that mean someone else is not?
The teachings of Jesus (as far as I am aware) don’t say, “try to scare everyone into believing in me because it’s right” they say that through him is the only way to heaven. Now if some Christians feel it is their place in the universe to save as many souls as possible (and after the 50th one you recieve a free set of steak knives) then so be it. But I think that anyone who judges one Christian as “bad” versus another as “good” has violated the “judge not lest thee be judged” philosophy.
Personally I’m happy I’m not involved in such nonsense.
If you feel that you must suffer, then plan your suffering carefully–as you choose your dreams, as you conceive your ancestors.
Navigator, that is exactly what I was asking for! Good job on the research. The problem is that most of the religious radio stations have been co-opted by the larger so-called “Christian” groups like TBN and the like. There might be just one low-watt am station that might broadcast messages like these, out of about six here in Portland. I will try to promote these as best as I can, though.
Yosemitebabe, when it comes to providing false hope and defrauding millions of people from hundreds of millions of dollars, it stops being a “Christian” matter. This nasty old atheist ain’t backing off.
They have a Real Audio stream, that carries Bible Answerman at 7:00pm CST/CDT. The majority of the progams are kosher. (can I describe a Christian that way??)
Navagator: Bless you for the new link, man! More for me to bookmark!
Slythe - to quote you:
Huh? Once again…HUH?!? Where did you get the impression I thought you should “back off”? Please cut and paste anything I wrote here where I told you to “back off”. (Or, as I mentioned previously, please quote where I told you that “you were the problem”, as you alluded to in your last post.)
I don’t even think you are reading my posts very well, or anyone else’s, for that matter. (I think Tris has commented on this with you too. You’re beginning to develop a pattern here.) What I meant was (like it’ll do any good to explain it again…)
When you said:
I responded that you weren’t the problem. You are not a Christian. You are an atheist. This OP is (remember the OP?) titled “What do Christians think about ‘Christians’?” No mention of atheists there, right? So the “problem” being discussed in this thread is not about atheists at all…it’s about how Christians are dealing with “Christians”. So why would I blame an atheist for something that the OP is specificly describing as a “Christian” problem? OK - Got that now?
I’m sure this is an exercise in futility. But I’ve tried to explain it. And - please - before you allude that I’ve told you to “back off” or that I think you are “the problem” or anything else - please cut and paste a quote of where I’ve written it first.
Another thing before I end this post: When you wrote:
What did you mean exactly? I mean, I’d assume you meant the charlatans who are bilking people of their life savings and…where does the “false hope” come it? “False hope” for what? Eternal Salvation? That’s not really your call, to decide that someone’s hopes of Eternal Salvation are “false hope”. But I’m not sure what you meant. What did you mean, exactly?
sigh
Yosemite, are you trying to imply that only Christians should post on this thread? Does anybody else want me to treat this thread like a private club and just walk away? If so, just say so and I will, quietly.
As far as false hope goes, what do you think goes through the minds of people as they get on stage for the opportunity to get bapped on the head by Benny Hinn and the hundreds like him who “heal” on demand? Here is a man who has presented himself to be a Christian leader, who says that Christianity can heal their ills if they just believe enough.
When they leave the stage, and the pain and illness is still there after the elation has wound down, they will either think that Christianity might not be the way, or even worse, that their illness is their fault because they just didn’t believe hard enough.
That’s just one small example of the false hope perpetuated by these “Christians”.
You foolish Galatian! That whirring sound you hear is St. Paul spinning in his grave.
Slythe, I completely agree that those people who exploit other people’s faith for their own monetary gain or ego-boost are despicable. And I trust you’ve reviewed the Could You Believe thread where three of us deluded theists are trying to come to terms with a traumatic episode Glitch went through, one with strong similarities to what you’ve said (IIRC) turned you off to Christians. But, if I may be blunt, I think you’re being too quick to take offense at honest and decent people who happen to be Christian who are trying to deal with the question of what to do with dishonest and indecent people who claim to be Christian. Read with an element of charity – 'Gator, Yo’babe (always wanted to say that to a girl and not get slapped for it! ;)), and I are not interested in putting you down or deluding you. Peace, friend.
Yosemite: I have to admit, I too get the impression that you think only Christians should or should posted to this thread. Why? Don’t you think atheists can provide some useful feedback on what these jokers make Christianity look like? I mean these folks never turned me away from Christianity. As before, I find their stance repulsive as a person, not as a matter of theology, but still I think as an intelligent person (atheist or not) I can contribute my perceptions of what it must look like to some people.
I knew it. Once again, you totally ignored my post. I just knew you’d manage to do it again! Actually, I don’t believe anyone is this dense. I am beginning to think you are doing this on purpose.
One More Time: (Or, if it doesn’t strain you too much, just read my previous post…)
You previously alluded that I had written something to the effect that “I blame you (slythe) for all the problems with Christianity”
I responded that the “problems” with Christianity, as described specifically on THIS THREAD (titled “What do Christians think about ‘Christians’?”) was about…Christians. (No mention of atheists being involved in the “problem”, as defined in the OP.) So—(one more time, I can’t believe I have to explain this to you again) why would I “blame” (as you accused me of) an atheist for the “problems” of Christianity, as specified in the OP? That’s all it was about - I was not “blaming” you or other atheists.
Then, to quote myself from my previous post:
I specifically denied telling you to “back off”, or in other words, telling you that you could not participate in this thread, or have any interest in this issue. Sheesh. And then you turn around and think that I want you to not participate in this thread.
Just like I thought. You don’t read my posts. Or…you are doing this on purpose. Or…you are just dense. But, I don’t really believe you are that dense.
Like I requested last time: If you “think” I am saying something to you, (like “you are the problem”, or to “back off”, or this new little gem you’ve come up with - that “atheists should’t post on this thread”) PLEASE cut and paste a quote where I actually write it!! Just don’t conjure it up from your fertile imagination.
Boy, can I dig it. Whenever I espouse the Philosophy That Dare Not Speak Its Name, I have to cut my way through assumptions that are thick as a briar patch.
O.K. Yosemitebabe. Let’s assume I have read something in your posts that are not there.
I’m sorry.
Now…Do you have anything to contribute to the topic at hand?
Slythe: whew Glad to know you aren’t going to put even more words into my mouth. (At least this time!)
To answer you: Yes, I actually did have things to contribute to this thread. Maybe if you actually would read some of my previous posts, you’d find them! (Sorry, can’t help but be a little snide there.)
One thing I pointed out previously (and now is being supported by Navagator’s links) is that there are Christians denouncing, or trying to “counter-balance” the icky “psuedo-Christians” - but they are harder to find out about because the mainstream media is reluctant to give them equal coverage. And I believe that wholeheartedly.
While these “false teachers” might have media networks that amplify their misguided voices, it is up to the rest of us Xns, to join together to drown them out with the truth. That happens thru community outreach, home and world missions, radio, TV, web, and print material, from the pulpit. It is our duty to share the good news (the real stuff) in a manner according to our talents.
Thank you for being so gracious in accepting my apology. BTW, I’ve gotten used to the constant snideness, so don’t worry about it.
Back to the topic at hand-Another avenue used by the radiovangelists is shortwave broadcasting, which is more likely the way our religions are heard from overseas. Unfortunately, the only broadcasts I’ve heard so far are so radical they couldn’t be aired on am radio. Nav, have you had any luck in finding a more moderate stance on the shortwave bands?
Slythe:
Yeah, I guess I could be a little more gracious! But to quote you:
“Let’s assume” what? You did read something into my posts that weren’t there! There is no “assuming” about it. Why not flat out admit it?
I’m sorry, I realize I’m beginning to flog a dead horse. You said “I’m sorry”. Thank you for that.
As for the snideness - I admitted it, of course I’m snide! Glad you have gotten used to it…you certainly dish out a fair share of it yourself! (Do you want me to copy and paste some of your best “snide” quotes?)
Thanks! Yes, it is good to know someone else understands my frustration!