What do Christians do about . . . "Christians"?

Great Debates
1

Let’s say you’re a Christian. You have accepted Christ as your personal savior. You obey his edicts by loving the Lord, thy God with all your heart and by loving your neighbor as yourself. You do His teachings right by being open-hearted, loving, humble, and charitable.

Then along comes someone who calls himself (or herself) a Christian, makes a lot of noise about it, but his actions make his words lies. He is hateful, judgemental, greedy, mean, and petty. Every time he opens his mouth, you wince. He brings a lot of attention to himself, and in doing so, many people begin to judge Christians as a whole as being as loud-mouthed and hypocritical as this sad sack. You even find yourself defending your own beliefs to people who ought to know you better.

What do you do?

This isn’t as hypothetical a question as I could make it sound. Offhand, I’d say Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, and a few others would easily fall into the “Christian” (as in “not hardly”) category.

I’m addressing Christians because they are the majority in my culture, but I’m also interested in hearing from other religions.

What say you, good Christians?

2

Judging from the response I usually hear in such a situation, I’d guess that the first guy would claim that the second guy isn’t a “true Christian”. :rolleyes:

3

And the second guy would claim the reverse.

4

Tracer’s response just about sums it up. In fact, I can’t think of anything to add to it, I’ll just say that my personal experience supports that, entirely.

I sold my soul to Satan for a dollar. I got it in the mail.

5

I have been in this situation, but I would not use the “he’s not a Christian” line. As noted, it’s not a very fruitful way of dealing with the issue.

Instead, I’ve advised non-Christian friends who ask about it that they should not assume that the noisiest Christians are representative of all Christians. Also, if they’re intereseted, they should observe other Christians, not necesarily the media-hungry ones, and see if they form a different view of the religion.

and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe

6

phouka, why don’t you read the Bible or ask your minister rather than seeking advice from a board that includes many atheists, agnostics, wiccans, and scoffers?

The Coyote gnaws …
but he does not swallow.

7

** phouka** says

Well, I don’t identify myself as a Good Christian. I don’t start telling someone else that I don’t find their actions acceptable to Christ. I don’t try to judge them. If I feel that someone had done harm to someone in Jesus’ name, then I feel compelled to act to relieve the harm. If asked (as here) I say only that no one here on the Earth is your judge, in matters of the spirit. To any who feel that Christians have denied the love of Christ to them I offer to them my assurance that that is not so, and Christ’s promise is that he loves you.

Jesus even loves Fred Phelps, and Pat Robertson. I know it sounds hard to believe, but please remember that when people start to describe the limits of Jesus’ love. He ** loves even closed minded bigots.** Whatever His anger might be toward someone who leads His children away from His love, He knows we are weak, and vain, and proud. We forget that righteousness is His, not ours. When I say I am a sinner, saved by Christ, it does not mean that I think I am some sort of pathetic looser compared to you, but that I am not perfect. My imperfection will lead me to die, and be lost forever. Christ will save me, if I join my spirit to His.

When Fred Phelps speaks with hatred toward homosexuals he speaks for himself. When Pat Robertson plays at national politics from the pulpit of a church, he speaks for his own aggrandizement. I cannot judge the souls of Phelps, and Robertson, and they cannot judge yours. If you search the bible for rules, and sins, and justification for yourself, you will find yourself reflected back to you in that miraculous book. If you search it for love, to take into your heart, you will find God, and yourself. As always the choice is yours.

Don’t follow Christians, follow Christ. Love is always part of the answer. Where Christ is, there is Love. If you cannot hear Him, then listen for the call of love, and go there. If you cannot believe in Him, then believe that Love itself is worthy of your dedication. He will greet you in the end, and know you.
<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>Tris</P>

Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than the arguments of its opponents.
– **William Penn **

8

Sorry, Tris, but I consider that to be a cheap “out”. I have posted before about Christians giving others a “get out of jail free” card over and over again, merely because they also call themselves Christian. When I hear sermons telling people that they should not ever listen to Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, etc., that they are not serving the faith or the people, I’ll be impressed.

9

Slythe: You must not understand what it is to forgive. Jesus said we should forgive our brother if he sins against us. How many times should we forgive him? “Seventy times seven.” (Matthew 18:22) Does that mean we should stop forgiving after 490 times? Not hardly. It is not an “out” to forgive. It is what we are supposed to do, as commanded by our Lord.

Adam

“Life is hard…but God is good”

10

Adam, preachers speak on the evils of society all the time. The one subject that seems to be off limits is the one I mentioned. All it takes is the term “Christian”, and suddenly all is forgiven. Before you invite people over to your House, try cleaning it first.

11

phouka, do you know my husband??? hehehe

I’ve had this discussion with my oldest son DJ, he is at Liberty University, Jerry Falwell’s school. Mr. Falwell was saying some pretty outrageous things to the captive audience (read:kids) who hung on his every word about the Lord coming back Jan 1st. There were kids dropping out of school packing everything up and going home, because they listened to him. DJ would call and ask, what do I think of this…and tell me the story. It is the same thing I’d tell anyone…these are just flawed people with flawed opinions. They MAY mean well, they may not, DON’T base your life on what another PERSON tells you. All that counts in life is what you SHOW, and that is it. People can SAY anything, but do they live it?
Genuineness is something that has to be given some time to see if it is the real thing or not. Don’t let the labels get you, or impress you, it is only as meaningful as the person shows it to be.

“Consider it a challenge…”

12

Personally, I speak out against them in any way I can. It sickens me that the image of a “Christian” to most people is Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps. I’ve spoken out on it here, I belong to groups that fight both of the people mentioned above, and I discuss it with my friends when they bring up what they think is the “Christian” mindset on an issue.

I was silent for too long on this, and honestly…I never felt worse than when I did. Maybe it’s me, but I can’t stand by and let people spout hatred in Jesus’s name. shrug If they then think I’m a godless heathen, so what. From the sheer amount of people from this messgae board alone that are supposedly going to Hell, I think I’ll have a good time down there. :slight_smile:

Aside from what I do now, I don’t know what else could be done…any suggestions?

13

Have you gone to the pastor of your church and asked him to speak on the subject? Did you tell him that people are having a hard time believing in the faith because of the silence about others who claim to be Christian?

14

No I have not, slythe…mainly because I no longer attend church. I am a confirmed Catholic, but I now choose to live my beliefs by actions rather than by going to church. However, I do know a couple of campus ministers I could talk to that I’m still in touch with. And honestly…I think changing people’s minds is easier at that level.

“You are sweet, kind, and considerate… Like a grown up boy scout with tits!” - Brian, aka SDMB’s one and only Satan.

15

I’m going to reply to this when I have more time–

However, I do want to start off by saying this:

It is the responsibility of the Christian to address any situation in which a fellow Christian is behaving in a manner which sets a poor example. Not to sit idly by.

This is not pious “judging,” i.e., taking a superior attitude towards and weilding Christianity as a permit to put people down.

2Tim. 3:16 states that scripture is God-breathed, useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. One would not rebuke or correct folks who are not in error. One corrects someone who is behaving in a manner which does not reflect the life they have been called to as Christians. This would correspond with actions that are in opposition to the word of God.

I have to say that I would address the one in error privately (or, if necessary to correct false teaching, in public) but in humility and in genuine earnest to benefit the one ‘astray.’ In doing so, I am also aware that I myself must be open to correction, in that I may misunderstand the reasoning behind the ‘offending action.’

This occurs when errors are made in a
‘presentational’ fashion, i.e., a manner which affects the witness of the Christian. False doctrine (teachings inconsistent with Christ’s teachings), rebellion (actions contrary and opposing God’s word), and spiritual pride (using God as a means of belittling others, or exalting oneself because of their ‘right to salvation’) are some examples of areas needing correction.

Paul addresses the issue in the OP several times. As I said, I’ll write more later.

Take care.

–Jason

Insanity destroys logic, but not wit. Nathaniel Emmons

If we are out of our mind, it is for the Lord; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 2Cor.5:13

16

“By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” — Jesus

17

Phouka said:

Well, if the good Christians on this board are any example, you go over to the LBMB and argue with those second types of “Christians”! :wink:

18

Meant to add: And point out how un-Christian-like they are being.

19

Peyote Coyote sez:

Because, Peyote, I am not a Christian. I don’t have a minister, and the Bible is not my primary guide in how to live my life. I wrote my question in the second person for a reason - to elicit responses from Christians about Christians (and also from Jews about Jews, from Moslems about Moslems, from Unicornians about Unicornians).

I suppose I fall into the heathen crowd that sees the actions of men like Phelps, shake my head and ask “could the real Christians out there please stand up and make yourself known.”

It’s nice to know that some, like Falcon, are willing to call their brethren (and sistren(?)) on their faults.

20

** slythe
** says

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I said, but don’t let that keep you from your fond hatred of Christians. Slythe, I didn’t give anyone a get out of anywhere for any price card. That is your favorite little hobbyhorse, not mine. I said that Phelps and Robertson do not speak for Jesus. I said that Jesus loves each and ever one of us, you included. If you want to believe that to be a message of hate, I suggest that the hate is coming from you, not the message.

You need someone authoritative to intervene for you? Don’t ask me, I am not an authority. I don’t think Phelps and Robertson are authorities. I never supported the doctrine they preach. I said, “When Fred Phelps speaks with hatred toward homosexuals he speaks for himself. When Pat Robertson plays at national politics from the pulpit of a church, he speaks for his own aggrandizement.” For which you revile me for not jumping in with my own hatred, and slapping you on the back in celebration of yours. No, thanks. Perhaps you need to hate people just because they hate someone else, or even you. I don’t want to walk that path.

The message of Jesus is the message of Love. When you hear that, you will understand. If Phelps preaches hatred, He does not speak for Me, or for my Lord. I am not anointed to do anything about judgement of the spirit of Slythe, or Phelps, or Robertson. You want me to start condemning people’s souls, you are in for a long wait. The whole problem with the message that you are complaining about from Phelps and Robertson is what you now demand that I do. You do it too. Well, sorry, it ain’t my faith that you, or them, or I are appointed to that office.
<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>Tris</P>

Chase after the truth like all hell and you’ll free yourself, even though you never touch its coattails.
– Clarence Darrow