In any war movie or Army movie, the guy who bosses the privates around is always a sergeant. I know there’s a rank between private and sergeant: corporal. But I’ve never been clear on what role corporals play in the chain of command. We see commissioned arguments giving sergeants orders to be passed on, but we never see sergeants giving corporals orders to pass along to privates; the sergeants always seem to deal with the privates directly.
:smack: We see commissioned officers giving sergeants orders . . .
Usually a Team Leader or Fire Team Leader. Usually 2 teams are led by a Sergeant.
I should give a more complete answer. In the modern Army E1-E3 are privates. An E4 is usually a Specialist which is not a Non Commissioned Officer. If an E4 is put in a position of authority they can be made a Corporal. It is a NCO position but it is not a different pay grade. E-5 and above are various grades of Sergeant. Corporals can also be put in other positions of authority. For instance a tank gunner is an E5 position. I have seen plenty of E4s in that slot and they are usually made Corporals.
A corporal is the first NCO rank. A soldier in the pay grade of E-4 may either be a Corporal or a Specialist. Corporals have the authority to act as Non Comissioned Officers whereas must Specialists do not. A Corporal may be a squad leader or a team leader. A Corporal’s performance is evaluated differently than a Specialist or a Private. A Corporal may give lawful orders to those junior to him or her, just as a Sergeant may do. If a Sergeant has given orders to his Privates, however, there is not much need for the overlap in the movies for the Corporal to echo them to his or her squad. In reality, it may need to be done for clarification or specific instructions.
SGT Schwartz
Of course, this is all specific to the U.S. armed services. Other armies generally do not have “Specialists.”
Corporals in most (but not all) modern armies do not usually take on command roles; for the most part a corporal (in some cases the equivalent rank is called Lance Corporal) is a soldier who’s senior to a private, and in most circumstances would not have any reason to go around ordering privates to do things. In most roles a corporal is effectively an expert in a particular trade, whereas a private is something of an apprentice; promotion to Corporal in many armies is often contigent upon the completion of at least an intermediate level of training in their particular speciality. However, they will likely be called upon to exercise some low level of command from time to time, either in situations where an NCO is unavailable or where the task isn’t worth a sergeant’s time to supervise directly, and so it is logical to have a rank that distinguishes a senior, or more capable, soldier from other ones.
In some armed services soldiers do not begin to receive substantial training specific to leadership and command until they are preparing to be promoted PAST Corporal; in some, the first leadership training will come as part of becoming a Corporal. The exact level of leadership responsibility attahced to Corporal varies from army to army. In fact, a U.S. Army corporal is quite different from a U.S. Marine corporal. A Marine corporal in an infantry unit usually IS in a command position; the rank often leads an entire squad.
I’ve heard this before, but I’m only familiar with “private” and “private first class”. Does one of those encompass two pay grades, or is there a third one?
E1 is Private, no insignia
E2 is Private called PV2, one chevron called a mosquito wing
E3 is Private First Class, one chevron one rocker.
This of course is Army rank. All other services are different.
I should have clarified, but the OP asked about Army movies and BrainGlutton lists his location as Miami Dade, Florida, USA. My answer was related to the question as posted.
Thank OG he didn’t ask about Sergeant Majors
SGT Schwartz
RickJay, what’s involved in being a “Master Corporal” in the Canadian Forces? It always gives the impression of being a pretty senior non-com rank,
Technically, it’s not even called a “Rank,” it’s just an appointment that was created to bridge the gap between corporal and sergeant. Despite its legal status as an “Appointment” it is in any real sense a rank - it’s a different pay scale, a different rank insignia, you’re addressed as “Master Corporal” and you get different jobs.
In practice, Master Corporal is the first rank of real, structural leadership. Master Corporals in the infantry will sometimes command sections, and usually command equivalent groups in other trades. You have to take a leadership course (which, in my direct experience, was much harder than basic training) to earn the promotion, and depending on your job you may have to take additional trades training; an infantry MCpl needs advanced weapons training, usually a machine gunner’s qualification. It is in many respects equivalent to the junior level of sergeant in other armies, or if they have it, a very senior corporal; a Canadian Sergeant would be equivalent to a moderately senior sergeant. (There’s only oen “Sergeant” rank in Canada; above that, you’re a Warrant Officer.)
Perhaps most notably, MCpl is the first rank at which command ability is a critical part of your formal performance assessment.
It takes a fair amount of experience and substantive trade training to be a Master Corporal, and unlike Corporal it’s not automatic based on certain achievements.
Just a quick note regarding “Lance Corporal” – it’s a U.S. Marine Corps rank. (I’m not sure whether it exists in non-U.S. armed services or not.) It is not equivalent to Corporal – E-4 non-Spec. Marines are Corporals – but is the Marine rank equivalent to PFC. I believe, but would need confirmation from a Marine, that the distinction is that Lance is, or potentially is, a NCO – someone in the position (and with training) to step into the shoes of the Corporal leading a squad if he is killed in combat. In the sorts of combat that Marines specialize for, this becomes a sufficiently greater possibility, without a Sergeant immediately at hand, than in the Army, so the NCO tiers go one step lower than Army.
The Canadian military does indeed have specialists, but it’s not a rank. It’s a “trade group” and is applied to soldiers who have taken advanced training in some complex field and thus earns “Specialist Pay”. There are two levels of Specialists, 1 and 2, earning typically $400-$500 and $700-$800 more per month than the “Standard”, respectively.
I myself being an LCIS tech (Spec 1), I pull down about as much as a non-specialist two ranks higher. I had to undergo 13 months of electronics training to do so.
Just popping in to give the British Army perspective on this - I was in the Officers’ Training Corps for five years, but never served TA or regular, so I’d welcome corrections from anyone with more experience.
The British infantry squad structure is similar to the American - 8 men commanded by a corporal. In most circumstances, the corporal will get his orders directly from the LT commanding the platoon and pass them on to his squad. He is trained to handle simple combat situations independently, and will often lead patrols on his own. The second in command of a squad (usually also acting as i/c of the fire team not commanded by the corporal) is a lance corporal. Generally a soldier must pass a cadre course to be promoted to L/Cpl; this is a difficult course involving combat exercises, leadership exercises and some general expansion of military knowledge (signals, first aid, etc). In all respects, therefore, L/Cpl and Cpl are ‘real’ NCO ranks.
The platoon sergeant is not in such direct command of troops; typically he will primarily be concerned with the logistics of the platoon, food/water resupply, prisoner handling, etc.
The situation is slightly different in specialist arms. I’m most familiar with the artillery; there the rank structure reflects specialist training more strongly still. E.g. in an artillery battery as I’m familiar with it:
Privates - heavy lifting, carrying ammunition. In the command post, signals
L/Cpl - 2 i/c of a gun, assisting in the command post or observation post
Cpl - i/c of a gun, 2 i/c of an observation post team
Sgt - i/c of a section of 3 guns, 2i/c of the Command Post, assistant to the Battery Commander
one should also point out that, as squad leaders, corporals are responsible for keeping an eye on the men’s welfare and any discipline or morale problems that are brewing. If they don’t know who’s got a beef with who, who’s got girl trouble, who’s the potential thief or drunk, they’re not doing their jobs properly.
I think E1 used to be called “recruit” or “buck private.” E2 is what used to be plain “private.” Traditionally, I believe, PFC was the first rank to get any rank insignia.
Even the US Army treats Marine Corps E-3 Lance CPLs as NCOs. So despite the similar pay grade, an E-3 Marine outranks an E-3 Soldier.