I’ve seen the same practice in lots of retail places (a couple as employee, several more as customer), including some where the ownership certainly was not present.
The expectation of the employees was to close the door at closing time, inquire of customers already inside if they needed any help, and to process the sales and let the customers out as they were ready. Some separate closing/cleaning operations might go on during this window.
Why should they be unhappy about it? They were getting paid; nothing unusual was happening.
But if that’s the restaurant’s policy (and, of course, everyone is getting paid for the time)… why would your expectations be different?
I answered “The kitchen closes at 10:00; get there early so your meal will be cooked by 10:00”, although my opinion falls between that and “The doors close at 10:00. You’d better be done with your meal by then.” I would say a closing time of 10:00 means you should be there early enough that you have mostly finished eating by 10:00.
When I’ve been in restaurants close to closing time, I have often been told “Oh, no hurry” by servers if I was still finishing up my drink or dessert. I’ve never had the impression that they needed me out the door at exactly the posted closing time. However, that is (give or take a few minutes) the time the staff will want to start performing their closing duties, and lingering too long will force them to delay some tasks. So it’s jerkish to hang around for long after closing time, and I wouldn’t knowingly place myself in a situation where I’d be just beginning to eat my meal at the posted closing time.
Your poll said “can” still walk in the door. With most restaurants it’s possible, though a lot of them won’t have the full menu, or will refuse or whatever.
It’s the epitome of rudeness to walk into a restaurant (except in times of desperation, just got into a strange city, it’s the only place near the hotel, etc), with little to no time to go before closing. To any reasonable and polite human, closing time means the time you are walking out the door.
Same with gyms, closing time means you are walking out the door, it does NOT mean finishing your last rep and heading toward the showers.
When I worked at a restaurant, the policy was definitely that we served people who came in the door one minute before closing, no problem. However, the staff very much appreciated it when people who did this showed some awareness that the restaurant was closing, and kept their orders light and minimal, i.e. just dinner and then out. What we really hated was people who came in at 9:59 pm and then wanted two rounds of drinks, appetizers, full meal, desserts, after-dinner coffee and drinks, etc. Come on. That’s not cool.
That’s absolutely logical, and if people were logical, they’d think that way. Of course, I also waited tables when I was young and not so able to think logically.
Also, I don’t know if anyone’s done a study on it, but in my experience, last minute customers were mostly crappy tippers. Most often drunks come in for a hangover prevention meal before stumbling home, and they’d either spent most of their money at the bar, or they’d just forget or “forget” to tip. And at the end of a long shift, my minimum wage (or less) was not nearly so appealing as getting the heck out of there and getting off my feet.
But I think mostly it has to do with expectation. If it’s 10 minutes to close and no one’s been in for 20 minutes, I’m sort of mentally checked out already. I might be thinking about that new book I’m going to bring home, or feeling accomplished because all the teacups are cleaned and put away. I’m patting myself on the back for my efficiency and a job well (almost) done…and then I’ve got to start over. It’s just a mental speed bump, and that causes stress.
A bookstore/tea shop wasn’t what the original question was about, though. A bookstore/tea shop isn’t what I’d consider a “restaurant.” I’d stop in Red Lodge 15 minutes before close, sure. I probably wouldn’t order a sandwich or anything that required cooking, but I’d be pretty sure I could finish a cup of tea and find a good book in 15 minutes and be out the door at closing time. But I wouldn’t come it one minute before close unless I was just getting a book I’d seen in the window and knew you could grab it for me real quick like.
I understand, WhyNot – although I was talking about restaurants in the post you quoted and not my own shop. Perhaps it’s because this is a small town and I know the owners and servers at most of the restaurants. Times are hard right now, and every meal they serve matters to their bottom line. It’s income they wouldn’t have had, fresh food they didn’t have to throw out, and tips for the server who stays and takes care of us. And if the server has already done most of their end-of-shift work, he or she may well end up grabbing a drink and joining us.
Mostly, though, I think this whole question is one of communication. The management at the restaurant needs to clearly communicate both to the customers and to the staff what the closing policies are, and pay the staff fairly and consistently.
ETA: I really do understand the difference between my tea bar – where I can fresh-brew a chai tea latte in five minutes and clean up after it in three – and a restaurant where it takes 20 minutes to prepare a meal and dirties a pile of dishes and cookware. I’m trying not to make this about my shop, but Absolute said that all commercial enterprises work that way and I used my store as a counter-example. I could just as easily offer up everyplace else I’ve worked in my entire life. In the software business, if I was helping a customer on the phone I didn’t hang up on them at 5:00; I stayed on the line until the problem was solved. I didn’t cut off my newspaper interviews at 5:00 and run an abbreviated story; I finished the interview even if it ran late. Good business practices mean taking care of customers. That’s how the business succeeds and how you succeed within the business.
Yup. That’s how it was when I worked in a restaurant. I did see the managers run some customers out of the restaurant, once, at 1:30 am when everything else was done and everyone was ready to leave, but there was one table of assholes who wouldn’t get the hint. (our hours were 11 am - 11 pm).
Do you have something against food that has been spat into?
To me, the meaning is vague. It might mean you need to leave before 10:00 or the doors stay open, but the kitchen shuts down. Or, that the doors are locked to not let anyone in past 10:00, but as long as you make it in time, you’re good.
So, without knowing, I would assume the most conservative: Get there no later than 9:30, and plan to be done by 10:00.
If the restaurant closes at 10, 9:30 is the latest I’d walk in for a full meal. I’d expect the full menu to be available with exceptions for something that takes a long time to cook and I’m ok if the restaurant is sold out of some items. I tip at least 20% and I’m sure I’d be out the door by 10:15 at the absolute latest.
Every restaurant I’ve worked at closed the kitchen a half hour or so before the posted closing time. The posted closing time was when customers were expected to be done and leaving.
Because the servers and cooks are tired of working and they’re gearing up for going out themselves, or going home to their families. A server is getting paid minimum wage except for your tip, which may or may not be very good, and if you stay for 30 minutes past close and you’re the only table nothing but the most outstanding tip is going to make up for it. And I understand the refrain of “it’s their job” and “more money for them” but sometimes it just doesn’t matter.
Depending on what kind of restaurant it is the staff may have started drinking, too. Not that this makes a difference in the quality of the food- I know people who drank all shift- but they are ready to go and probably doing nothing else but waiting for you to leave. That doesn’t sound like a pleasurable atmosphere as a diner to me.
We always expected to have to stay until 30-60 minutes after the posted closing time, so that people could finish up their meals and we could clear tables, etc. Someone who arrives one minute before close and then wants to order a full meal and linger over drinks is going to really push that limit. I never got too upset when people were there for a half-hour or so after closing time, but past that point I started to get fairly irritated.
My aunt, who owned the restaurant I worked at, would usually wait until the one-hour point (so, 11 pm, for a 10 pm closing time) and then turn all the lights up to full brightness and start running the vacuum cleaner nearby, as a not-so-subtle hint to patrons that it was time to finish up and leave. Keep in mind that by that point the kitchen and bar have both been closed for a full hour. I only remember her having to do this a couple of times, though; most people are courteous and/or sensible enough to know better than to hang around a restaurant that has been closed for an hour already.
What I voted and what I would do are two different things. All restauranteurs I know personally would keep the doors open until closing time. No new customers allowed in after 10pm. But all customers that came in up to that point would order and then be served at their leisure.
I personally wouldn’t do that because I don’t like to piss people off who are handling my food. So I wouldn’t eat at a place where I wouldn’t be out of there by closing time.
To me that means they close their doors at or before 10:00 and customers better be gone by then. You should have your meal ordered at least an hour before then. A lot of restaurants would actually close their doors a half hour before stated closing time so no new customers walk in.
You are conflating two different things, hour they close, and hour the kitchen closes.
Think of a restaurant with a small bar, the posted hours for the restaurant to be open say they will be open until 1am, because that’s the time bar service stops, by law. However the kitchen closes at say 10pm. They don’t want to pay the entire kitchen staff to hang around doing nothing for 3hrs. But they also don’t want to close the bar while people are still drinking.
Usually the high paid chef is out the door first, the rest are left to clean. Often some bar food, salads or deserts are still available.
Upscale from McDonald’s, whomever first speaks with you should say, kitchen closes in 5mins, whatever.
You should be accommodated at 9:55pm in any upscale restaurant where the kitchen closes at 10.
If you do sneak in late, always be sweet to your servers, sometimes she knows how to sweet talk the kitchen to do one more order. Order promptly, don’t linger over your coffee, tell her when she serves your food (if you’re not having coffee say)’ You can bill us now, if you like, we won’t want anything more!’ Whenever you get your cheque, put the payment on directly.
But they should be sweet and accommodating in any upscale place, regardless. If they had a slow night you could mean a better night, whenever you come through the door.
I am curious to know if the customs are different according to geographic area. I have worked in restaurants and lived most of my life in the western U.S. – closing time has always meant you could come in and expect to be seated and served up to that time. As staff, we always expected to stay an hour or so after closing.
I usually ask when last seating is when I make my reservations. Then I get a table 30 minutes Before that. We like to eat late, but don’t wanna be rushed. Simple.
If they close at ten, I would expect to be able to walk in the door anytime before that, 9:59 included, and be served anything on the menu. If the door’s unlocked, if the open sign is on, I can be seated. I’ve gone to one place consistently about ten minutes before closing, order a full meal, and still beat people out that were there before me. If I walked into another new place that had a posted closing time of 10, and I was greeted promptly and informed that I may have a drink or piece of pie, but that there would be no cooked foods, I wouldn’t be offended and would either have the drink or leave. I say you’re welcome to walk in, just be prepared to cooperate with the staff as to what your options are.
