Yeah, I’d be interested, too. Like I said, I’ve actually been turned away by the owners coming in twenty minutes or so before close. Twice. Two different places. Another time, I actually called ahead to the restaurant-pub to ask when the kitchen closed and that we were on the road so we would be cutting it close. We got there 5-10 minutes before the time I was told and were refused to be served food. We couldn’t even get a damned beer! (This was in Wisconsin after about 3 hours of driving.)
Now, there are some places I know around here that are very good about these sorts of things. But I don’t even bother to try less than a half hour out unless I know the place pretty well.
I don’t feel obligated to walk out the door by the minute they close, but I do feel like I should be there early enough that I can reasonably assume that I would have my meal finished by closing time. However, if the meal took longer than anticipated, I wouldn’t choke it back to be our of there by close, but I would go ahead settle my check before closing time. That way they can go ahead and do all their final paperwork/tallying etc, the know I am wrapping things up, and they know I left a tip. I figure that if all those things are true, they have plenty of closing chores to do and don’t really care if my butts sitting in a seat for an extra 15-20 minutes.
And from my experience, no one does mind if you’re still there 15-20 minutes after close. The kitchen takes the longest time to close and often the servers help as part of their $2.50/per hr job. My boss would rather let the minimum wage dishwashers go home at 10 and have the 1-2 remaining servers put clean dishes and silverware away, take out the trash and drape the mats to dry while waiting for people to finish eating and pay.
While the law says the employer of a $2.50/hr server’s to make up any difference between their tips and the minimum wage, that was never my experience.
I personally wouldn’t go somewhere after 45 minutes 'til close. I’ve worked in fast food, and I never liked being kept more than 15 minutes after my shift. But to me, restaurant closing times mean you should be able to walk in at 5 minutes to close and get a full meal. I would make an exception in expectations for a small local restaurant that closes after lunch and reopens for dinner, though. If they close for lunch at 2pm, the latest I think it’s acceptable to walk in is 115-ish.
I usually assume that the kitchen closes at least half an hour before closing time. IME if the closing time is 10pm, that’s when they start gently asking people to wrap things up and leave. Usually they allow people to linger for another half hour, maybe. I’ve never been to a place that expects everyone to be gone by closing time.
My expectation would be that they will seat and serve anyone who walked in even a minute before closing time.
As a patron, however, I would never do this. I think the worst I have done is 15-20 minutes before closing, and I asked very politely if it was ok or if we were too late and they seemed happy to seat us and we did NOT linger for very long and all was right with the world.
I’m pretty sure most places here in the UK say “kitchen closes at 10 PM”, which means no new orders at 10. You can order at 9.55 and they’ll serve you, they have no problem with you asking and saying no if they don’t feel like it anymore.
I think the reason it is specified is that so many restaurants are bars, they’ll be open until 2 AM. The tables in bars often have little signs saying “food served till 10”. I’m not sure about nicer restaurants that aren’t bars, if I’m going out for a nice meal I’ll probably be on time and not have to look at their closing time.
Obviously it’s up to them whether they serve me or not, but I’m not going to put on my clairvoyance cap and not ask 30 min before the time mentioned. A few years ago I had a Portuguese module that went from 6 to 8.30, after which I’d go out for a meal with my friend. The staff would usually ask the kitchen, as it would be right around closing time. Sometimes it was yes, sometimes it was no. That’s fine. But not even asking? Why? It’s their job.
As a retail worker, it means get there in enuf time to order your food, eat, and be out the doors at 10:00…so no later than 9ish. The biggest pet peeve we have is those thoughtless people who feel they are entitled to keep an entire establishment open past their closing hours.If you didn’t take advantage of the 12-15 hours that the place was open, oh well!!!
I think the issue is that it isn’t really up to them, as people, but rather up to the establishment as a policy. So a group of people may be obligated to tell you “Oh, please, order! Of course we would love to serve you” when they are privately thinking “Son of a bitch. I’ve been on my feet 10 hours already, I’d cheerfully pay double whatever pathetic money I will earn from this extra half hour to be able to just collapse right now”.
You can ask what the policy is. There really isn’t any way to ask what the employees want.
But that could be true 90 minutes before posted closing, too, or really any time. Maybe somebody feels, upon arrival, that they’d rather not be at work at all that day. Are customers supposed to detect that, too?
No, it couldn’t. Whether or not you feel like ass at the beginning of your shift, you’re going to have to be there for the whole shift anyway. Someone walks in one minute before closing, and that just potentially extended your work day by an hour. Different situation.
Look, regardless of what the restaurant’s policy may be, it has to be true that there is a latest-possible minute in which, per policy, a customer is supposed to be able to walk in, be seated, and expect normal full service, right?
What I am saying is: however long it takes to complete that service, is the shift. That’s not some special, extreme circumstance.
It would certainly make things easier for both staff and customers if management actually stated that time.
I voted the first option. In practice, 9:30 is usually about the latest I would enter. I have gone as late as 9:45 but then I’m usually in a hurry and I expect to get in and get out. Actually, I like the service you get the later the hour. I do increase my tip on these occasions.
That’s true, but that applies to a lot of jobs other than sit-down restaurants. The employees of the McDonald’s that closes at 10 would prefer that no one came in after 9:30 so they can get their cleaning done and go home early, the employees at my doctors office would no doubt prefer that no one book the last appointment so they can go home early , I’m sure that the motor vehicles employees would prefer than no one come in for the last half hour they’re open even though they probably won’t get to go home early. But I can’t imagine anyone saying you shouldn’t book the last appointment at the doctor’s office , or go in to the motor vehicle office just before the doors lock out of consideration for what the employees want.
Barring the existence of signage further explaining restaurant policy, I would expect a restaurant with a closing time of 10pm to be able to seat and feed a party that shows up at 9:59. I would also consider anyone who would actually do that to be a classless boor.* I, at least, am aware that the staff does not generally set the hours and just because the owner is happy to have people there until 11 doesn’t mean the busboy is. I know they’re paid to serve. I also don’t knock the sweater display over every time I walk by it in Target even though the employees are paid to clean it up and refold everything.
*Yes, your exception is very special. Clearly in this instance, your doing anything else would have been out of the question. You’re the rare exemption to the classless boor rule.
I’ve always heard closing time to mean that you will be seated and served if you show up any time before closing time. In practice, a lot of places will start to turn people away if they show up too close to that time. Personally, I will always try to show up to be out of there at or shorly after closing, so if they close at 10:00, then about 9:15 is about as late as I’d feel comfortable doing, and I’d not even consider it at 9:30.
I have, on a couple of ocassions, gone into places shortly before they closed and not realized it. In the most recent example, I didn’t even expect it since they were closing oddly early for a place that serves dinner (like 7 or 8), so I didn’t check their hours and we showed up like 5 or 10 minutes before. I only realized when they offered to make it to go, and when I realized, I apologized and was willing to withdraw my order. Oddly, someone else walked in just as we were leaving a little after close and they served him too, but were clearly more short.
Staying after close isn’t the last appointment: it’s asking the doctor to schedule you for 4:00 when they close at 4:00, or walking up to the DMV at closing time, as the employee is walking up to the door with the key in hand, and asking if you can squeeze in. Getting there thirty minutes before close when it’s reasonable to expect to be done by close is fine: getting there thirty minutes before close when you expect to spend an hour and a half on your meal is not, because it is adding to their shift. And you can’t just tell yourself “It’s ok, I asked”, because they aren’t allowed to answer honestly.
My favorite restaurant belongs to a friend of mine. I like the way they handle things. They close at midnight (I think; I haven’t stayed that late in quite a while). AT 22:30, they announced that the kitchen will be closing in 30 minutes. After 23:00 you can only order coffee and pre-wrapped desserts; anybody who walks in after that is told that the kitchen is closed, because, well, it is. At 23:30, whoever’s manning the counter yells “Last call in 15 minutes!” At 23:45 they yell “Last call!” and at midnight they say “Get the fuck out!”
Well, that last part is an exaggeration. And when my buddy owned the place, she’d let me stay late because (a) with me there she could get drunk on wine and have me there to drive her home, and (b) she could always get me to lurk menacingly around the cash register while she did her thing.