Inspired by this thread, I was thinking about broadening the scope of the referenced thread, but considering how specific the thread was, I didn’t want to risk a threadjack.
I’ve been to numerous restaurants and I’ve seen various policies - some where the kitchen closes earlier, but the bar is fully operational until the 11 pm mark; and others where they keep the kitchen open until 11 pm, causing the staff to stay well beyond “closing time.”
From a personal standpoint, when I’ve approached a restaurant’s doors and seen that they will close within 30 minutes, I turn away, because I feel it rude to keep the employees there beyond the “official” closing time, as most meals take longer than 30 minutes from seating the patron to having them complete the transaction.
However, I know of those who insist that if a restaurant lists itself as being open until 11 pm, they have every right to walk in at 10:50 and order a steak well-done.
I have no issue with a restaurant closing the kitchen earlier than the restaurant’s closing time, because I feel like (to a degree) it’s common sense and a matter of (for lack of a better word) empathy.
So, if you walk up to a restaurant at 10:45, and you know they close at 11, do you walk in? And if so, do you expect a full meal, or just a nightcap from the bar?
I worked in casino food-joints thru high-school. They were a 24-hour operation, with one day closed for “breakdown”. They would close for one 8 hour shift for “serious” cleaning. Usually the day or graveyard shift having to do all the nasty shit.
When I worked in a restaurant for several years, closing time was for seating customers. So the kitchen stayed open until the last table was served. Mostly I didn’t mind. Since I worked in the kitchen, a longer shift meant more money. What I didn’t care for was when things would happen like the mayor would show up 30 minutes later and order a salad, after the salad person went home. or when someone decided to order a rarely-ordered dessert after sitting around for an hour eating toast.
I don’t think the word “should” applies here. A restaurant will do what they think is good for their business. A patron will patronize them, or not, based on how that schedule fits with his convenience. Invoking any sort of “should” is irrelevant.
Opening and closing times are for customers, not staff. I expect that staff will be there before opening, to setup, and after closing to cleanup, it’s part of doing business.
If you are unwilling to serve a customer after 10:30, you should not advertise that you are open until 11. For a restaurant, you can have a “last seating” time and a separate “closing” time.
I’d be perfectly fine with a “last seating” time and a “closing time” as well. A good idea if that’s the kind of business you want to run.
I don’t think I have ever in my life gone to a restaurant that was within 15 minutes of closing, out of (an irrational?) fear that they would mess with my food or give me bad service… but on principle, they should seat people up to the last minute of being open, and serve them a full menu (unless otherwise stated).
This strikes me as the optimal solution. If restaurants posted their hours this way, customers would have no reason to be upset that they were turned away during ‘posted business hours,’ and staff wouldn’t have to linger unnecessarily because of late arrivals. Also, it would provide some guidelines to late diners as to when they are expected to be out the door. They’d know going in that their time was limited, and perhaps even be prompted if they tried to linger beyond the final closing time. At least with this sort of dual time posting, everybody knows up front what is going on. I’ve never seen a restaurant actually post their hours in such a manner, though.
If any business says they’re open till 11, I assume they’re open till 11. It’s not my job to figure out what they actually want from life. If they want to shut down by 11, then list 10:30.
That said, most places I’ve hit near closing did seat and serve, and anytime I’m the last customer, I up the tip a little.
This, except I don’t mind if they want to start the clean up early, just as long as they serve me what I want.
And I don’t feel like it’s rude to show up at 10mins before closing time any more than I feel it’s rude that by boss gives me tasks to do outside of my regular job. This isn’t an Ice Cream Social we’re talking about here, it’s a job.
Depends on the restaurant. A fast food joint like I worked, you’re right to expect them to serve up until closing time. A traditional restaurant should schedule the kitchen closed about 30-45 minutes before they lock up so guests can eat the last orders of the day. Staggering things like this means they can break down and clean up the kitchen and catch up the paperwork while guests eat, rather than mopping, vacuuming and such right next to them.
In the “you can’t be nice” category - a popular local diner that closes at 4 a.m. (closing time for a lot of clubs and bars here) gets all sorts of people begging for one more order while they clean up. They have a counter full of pre-made salads and desserts, so the owners would say “okay, but the grill is off - pick a salad.” After some relieved bless yous, cool dudes, and thanks, they’d invariably scowl at the selection, tilt their heads and say “Seriously, you can’t make me a gyro or something? C’mon.” After a few instances of telling such people to literally GTFO, they stopped trying to be nice and just repeat “We’re closed!” until they stumble away.
For those restaurants that want to dick around with separate “last seating” times, or advertise a 10 p.m. closing only to start aggressively vacuuming and piling chairs on tables around you at 10:10, a reminder that you probably have plenty of competitors who’d be delighted to pick up your disgusted former customers.
I never feel the need to jump into unrelated discussions to express my superiority to those who like semi-raw beef that’s dripping with blood and plasma. Guess I’m just too darn civilized. ������
There are restaurants that specialize in not vacuuming and piling chairs on tables at 10:10. They accomplish this by being open until 11:00. The ones that close at 10:00 don’t want your business, go to their competitor, all you do is cost them money.
I see no point in listing a last-seated time and a closing time. The last-seated time is the only time that is useful to the customer. If you’re going to post two times, it should be a kitchen closing time–the time after which no more kitchen orders will be accepted. Continue to accept customers up until closing time.
As for the OP: if you don’t post a kitchen closing time, I think most people will assume it stays open until closing time. So you should probably stay open that long.
And passive aggressive techniques such as those mentioned above will only cause me to skimp on the tip. I tip based on service and good service requires good communication.
I expect the restaurant will expect me to have completed my meal by, or at least near, the posted closing time. That may mean that the kitchen closes 30-15 minutes beforehand. If I walk in late, I’d expect a warning that the kitchen will close soon, and if I am still sitting while the kitchen closes, I’d expect a last call.
If I end up staying later than closing I feel bad and I fully expect them to start their cleanup process around me.
Same here. I’d also expect not everything on the menu to be available close to closing time. I certainly wouldn’t expect to be able to order something complicated or that would take a lot of cleaning.
I remember being expected to serve fresh-squeezed orange juice till closing time; that machine took half an hour to clean and often it hadn’t been used all day (so wouldn’t have needed claning otherwise) so it was only that one customer asking for their £1 glass of juice that cost me half an hour. :mad: Just part of the job, of course, but an annoying part.
And I wouldn’t expect them to serve a huge party of diners late unless I promised a big tip and was polite about asking if they could still serve us.
However, I’d expect them to be somewhat flexible about the time customers leave once they’ve got their food. It’s hard to judge how long it’s going to take you to eat the food (or how long it will take them to serve it). It’s the kitchen that takes the most clean-up time; having one or two tables still seated isn’t that big a deal (I have worked in this area).