I don’t really think the new Star Trek movies with Chris Pine are very good. But voicing my dislike alone isn’t a meaningful criticism and doesn’t warrant a more thoughtful response than “Don’t watch it then.” (Pine and the other actors were great in their roles but the mind numbingly stupid script killed my interest.) If someone doesn’t like sequels, reboots, remakes, etc., etc. then give me something more to work with than “I don’t like it.”
I agree but my point is that even when you provide details you still get the same tired non arguments I mentioned.
You can’t stop people liking what they like. No matter how awful you believe it is.
Anecdotal:
I once threw a recorded USB stick out my car window. My kid had put objectionable music on it.
I was master of my car, I lorded it over my kids. Because I could. Didn’t stop my kid from liking the music. It possibly made him like it more. But, my car, my player, my rules.
You can’t do that in the real world.
The problem I have is that at least some of those who say it don’t actually mean it. There is an expectation that some of these people who say that they do not want to read/watch/play/listen to something are still somehow required to do so by those who say that cliche. Even better if they can then somehow make not consuming the content about some sort of misogyny or racism or homophobia or so on. Their product fails miserably and clearly the group to blame is the one that already told you they weren’t interested.
It’s kind of like the Bill Burr bit about women not watching the WNBA. Clearly the problem isn’t that women don’t make up a majority of viewers, it’s that not enough men watch it.
The vast majority of the time such a comment is simply inane and not deserving of anything other than an inane response.
Yes, an argument can be had that a particular media product is potentially harmful to society writ large. That’s a case of when well informed discussion that it “should not” exist is potentially reasonable, maybe.
And certainly discussions regarding why we disagree about the merits and failings of an individual item, why one of us enjoys something the other hates, or is bored by, are valid. (Subject to limitations regarding repetition and need to convince the other of why they a wrong opinion.)
But very little media is necessary and an opinion that something that fails to appeal to you should not exist for anyone is awfully narcissistic.
Yeah just don’t watch it then.
While I generally agree with the philosophy that if I don’t enjoy some specific media, then I just don’t watch it or bother to join in discussions, there is one use case that, if I were dictator for life I would place heavy sanctions on: Bad Remakes.
Bad remakes like Bedazzled, Get Carter, Psycho, The Mechanic, Oldboy, The Taking of Pelham 123, and A Star I Born (just stop it with all the A Star Is Borns! We’re saturated!). Not because they are bad (I can just avoid watching them in that case), but because, at least for a few years, the bad pushes out the good. If a channel is broadcasting a title or a streaming source is featuring a title, it will be the (bad) remake not the great original, which I find super annoying.
As dictator for life, I’d make it very onerous to remake a classic and heavily penalize failure (I’m looking at you, Gus Van Sant).
But yeah, otherwise live and let live…
I’m reminded of the oft-quoted Burke axiom: “The only thing required for evil to win is for good people to do nothing.”
If there is some media item that is being viewed by a lot of people, and it’s taking them (and society) in a bad direction, and our stance is “If I don’t like it then I’ll just not consume it,” that’s…exactly the behavior described in the axiom.
You overlook that it is at least as likely that the thing that wasn’t made was worse than the thing that was made.
Godfather Part 2 was as good and possibly better as the original. Godfather Part 3 was an example of it being possible to make too many Godfathers.
I guess I don’t understand what you mean by “taking them in a bad direction”. I always come back to music, my main media consumption nowadays. There’s a lot of music out there I don’t like. I can’t think of any that is actually detrimental to society.
I know one form that has already taken humanity in bad directions. It’s bad for society, in some of the most horrible ways.
It’s completely unnecessary for a happy world.
that danged SpongeBob SquarePants, you’ve caused me so much consternation 
I’m guessing it’s a pretty low number. If Fast Car Explosion X doesn’t get made, the audience doesn’t decide to go to Arty French Film, or Sensitive Gay Cowboy Movie instead - they just don’t go to the theater.
At least in the world of books, the blockbusters that I don’t particularly care for provide publishers with the money to buy the quirky little book that might hit the spot for some readers (like me) but isn’t a guaranteed best seller.
That’s what a tentpole movie is.
Who the hell gets to decide whether the work in question is moving society in a “bad direction”? I’ve spent a great deal of my life consuming art that made the larger society clutch their pearls when they found out about it. There were attempts to ban a lot of it. It’s not my fault that the larger society were simultaneously idiots and incredibly thin skinned.
I’m firmly in the camp of :“You don’t like it? Awesome, don’t consume it. They didn’t make it for you.” Plus, who the hell is going to stop them from making it? The studio or label not having money to make it doesn’t stop the dedicated artist from making it anyway.
I suffer from earworm. Which means that not consuming (subjectively) bad music is not an option for me. Such music should not exist and will be the first to go after I achieve worldwide global domination. I will be a fair-minded tyrant however: music on my ban list can be listened to, but not played publicly.
I disagree. The entertainment media market(s) is extremely competitive. Voting with your wallet is the #1 way to get them to change.
And keep in mind that 90% of everything (and everyone, I’ve come to find) is crap (Sturgeon’s Law). And that’s always been true. So that 90% of people with crap taste like the 90% of stuff that is truly crap.
A third thing… not everything is art. Sure, a chef may produce a work of art with his interesting take on cuisine, but there’s also McDonald’s. Or for every Caravaggio, there’s a dozen Thomas Kincade-level painters out there making schlock.
So I think the best way to influence all of this is to watch what you like, and don’t watch what you don’t.
This is also one of my big gripes about current popular movies, all the various “franchises” that were mindless when they started and are even more so with every additional movie.
My question to everyone who shares this kind of view is, what do you propose to do about it? Not consuming it is apparently not good enough, so what is your actual proposal (again, this question is directed at everyone who shares the above view)?
Individuals for themselves; society in aggregate both in the moment voting with their ears and eyeballs and retrospectively by how “history judges.” And fascist dictators while they rule.
This view on display here of “what I anoint” is objectively “good” and what I pan is “bad” is … odd.
Why do streamers and networks show the “the (bad) remake not the great original”? Because that’s what they understand more people want to see while few want to see the (“great”) original. And while I agree many originals were relatively great I feel no need to rewatch them many times over. But I may be curious about it gets “covered” today.
“You” don’t like something? Fine and dandy. Happy to hear why and to discuss why we disagree. You want to denigrate my liking of the something? Claim that my taste is objectively incorrect? Not interested in that discussion.
The problem here is that preferences are expressed asymmetrically and with low resolution. Like something? Buy it. Don’t like something? The market doesn’t care. Like something a lot? People can and do buy the product twice or more. But I don’t think reward scales well with enjoyment or personal endorsement. I offer few or no non-jokey solutions to this.1
Those with negative tastes for something have little recourse but to engage in personal attacks on the work’s fan base. (A: Partly accurate2, but tough luck.) I think it’s possible to set up objective criteria and state the extent to which a work meets it or doesn’t. I’m a geek, so I would like more of that, even if in the end it doesn’t comprehensively measure a artwork’s merit. (No, I’m not exactly disagreeing with you.)
1 Except! The BBC’s Audience Appreciation Index deserves more attention. Appreciation Index - Wikipedia
2IOW inaccurate.
Well, I think that just about every pop song is largely the equivalent of musical McDonald’s. It all consumes 2-4 minutes, and if it’s “good” (or maybe even “great”), it’s an enjoyable few minutes. If it’s “bad”, it’d be hard to figure out a bigger waste of a few minutes. Of course, I think even the worst Whataburger is better than the best Burger King burger. You and I can’t decide whether a work of art is art or not, no more than our preferences determine what is a burger. We only get to decide whether we think it’s good or bad art (or burgers).
And well, some really good, simple burgers might as well be a work of art. Sometimes the burger you get is a story about the person who makes it. I had my first burger from Crown Burger in South Oak Cliff recently. I’d heard stories about them being fantastic, but you know, you hear stories. Apparently it started as a convenience store, but the guy who ran it decided that wasn’t worth the effort, and he switched to just the restaurant. It’s cash or Zelle only, which is kind of a mark of quality in and of itself. It’s in the same style as a Whataburger, but he’s Muslim, and only offers turkey bacon. He’ll also ask you if you want jalapenos, which aren’t actually on the menu. My wife said it was better than any Whataburger she’d ever had, and I was inclined to agree. I kind of don’t think you can make that burger as a product unless you’re him. That seems like a work of art to me. Some pop songs get to that level.
Hehe, yeah. Been dealing with the former drowning out what I prefer since I was in elementary school. The latter bent I’ve seen in this thread is kind of alarming.
Yeah, as someone who’s never really been in sync with what popular culture finds entertaining, it’s kind of maddening. I’ve had a very close friend ask me “What the fuck are we listening to?” and my honest answer was “My favorite record, from my favorite band.” We’re still friends, and still have vast differences of opinions on music. Neither of us would want to abolish the other’s tastes, though. That would be insane.