What do you think constitutes "fairness" when two mature individuals begin sharing housing?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

I’ve read everything so far …

As @Chronos says, if they reach a mutually happy arrangement, that is by definition “fair (enough)” for their purposes. To which I’d add " … if it stays mutually happy".

IMO …
The situation is so wildly asymmetrical that “fairness” is far more about morality and ethics than it is economics. And yes, I wonder if these folks’ maturity is sufficient to bridge that gap.

As a business matter Betty is (probably) asking too much and Dave is offering far too little. The “(probably)” is there on the off chance Dave is living in a studio apartment in a slum, and Betty is living in the nice part of town, such that Dave’s $1600 is barely room rent in Betty’s neighborhood.

The OP was silent on this point, but if these folks are friends also looking for simple companionship or are BF/GF/SO looking for a full-bore couples’ relationship then perhaps the intangible benefits each derives from that part of the cohabitation will also be put on the overall fairness scale in addition to the financial bits of mere indifferently co-existing roommates. Recognizing the difficulty of establishing an “exchange rate” between dollars & emotional [whatevers].

Switching back to economics, another question is the relative income and relative assets of the two parties. “Fairness” is easier the more equal they are on both dimensions. The less equal, the more e.g. 50/50 is less fair and “from each according to their ability” is more fair.


It happens I have a sorta similar thing in my recent past and probably future. Which is a bit of a hijack, but may have some useful parallels to the OP’s friends. I’ll hide them for the benefit of folks not interested in that stuff.

Recent Past

When I moved out on my now ex-wife a couple years ago I ended up rooming for ~4 months with a guy friend who lived alone in the 4-BR paid-off house where he’d raised his now 40-something kids. At the time I moved in, the expectation was that it would not be a permanent situation, but there was no specific end-date in mind either. My original guess was between 6 and 12 months as I decided where on Earth I wanted to live now that I was fully free of all constraint of job or family.

We mutually agreed to look at Zillow for the cost of a room for rent in the same neighborhood and whatever that consensus was, that’s what I’d pay. Turned out to be $1200/mo. Groceries and such were “each buy their own”, but nobody was fussy about who drank whose booze or coffee. Neither one of us cared whit one about the amount of money changing hands, but it seemed the honest way for neither of us to take advantage of the other. Which was both of our goals; neither to take advantage, nor be taken advantage of. Worked great.

 

Probable Future

Unrelated to that, my current GF and I are drifting towards a co-habit.

I live in a rented apartment in the fun neighborhood we want to live together in. She has a … wait for it … paid off house in a neighborhood we don’t want to live in. My place is too small for two; her place is plenty big for two. So in summary, I’m forced to move to either a bigger place near here, or in with her where she is. And she’s forced to move to my area which she prefers, or avoid the hassle of moving by staying put in her comfortable, but very boring, area.

We’re both similarly financially secure. Similar age too. She has adult self-sufficient kids. I have no kids. Zero interest by either of us in ever marrying, mostly due to phase of life. But this is intended as a permanent serious SO arrangement.

If we do both move to a new joint residence, which is the most likely outcome, the betting is we’ll want to rent, not buy. But that’s not for certain. Yet.

We’ve both given a lot of thought to how this might play out in a fair fashion, and where our redlines are. It’s still far enough in the future we’re not down to negotiating, but we’ve both been trying to draw the outlines of the envelope in our head.

22

Dave should hold onto his apartment for 3 months while he lives full-time in Betty’s house to see if they can even live together. They’ll very likely be sick of that much togetherness by then. This goes for if they’re just buddies or gf/bf.

About splitting groceries: If he’s a 200 lb guy and she’s a 130 lb woman, he needs to pay a much larger proportion of the groceries than Betty. If he drinks alcohol and she doesn’t, he needs to pay for his booze. If he wants to eat lobster and prime rib because now he can have someone else foot half the bill, that needs to be addressed as well.

I see no way this will go well. Sharing a house is tough even for best friends. Like others here have wisely said, with such different expectations, there’s already too much conflict.

23

Thank you all for your replies – you’ve brought up a bunch of aspects I hadn’t considered.

My starting point was more on Betty’s side, but I suspect my longer friendship with her weighed on the scales. I didn’t know how to express it, but yes, it seemed like Dave would be getting the benefit of Betty’s (and deceased husband’s) financial investment in buying the house for ‘free’ under his idea of just splitting the on-going ordinary costs.

OTOH, adding him to the household wouldn’t really increase Betty’s costs in some areas. Yes, he’ll walk on the carpets and sit on furniture, so that kind of thing will suffer some additional wear. But her property taxes won’t change at all, and the grass won’t grow faster nor the snowplowing needs increase at all.

Each of them will go from ‘exclusive’ use of their living space to sharing, so that’s a wash. Unless one of them tends to shovel household chores off on the other routinely, maybe.

Dave will suffer much more disruption than Betty, just from having to move and deal with his furniture, and the possibility of the whole set up falling apart quickly and having to deal with undoing the move. Whether he could afford to keep paying for his apartment during a trial run, I dunno, but it would be a significant cost. As would paying an early termination fee on his old lease, of course. Yes, Betty’s house has a nearly empty basement, but that’s because it is unfinished and super humid, and has in fact flooded three times while she’s lived there, 18" deep one time. There’s a dehumidifier there, but still, storing upholstered or veneered furnishings there long term would be risky, I think.

Oh, someone asked about their relationship. I wasn’t sure how to explain it. It started as a friendship and after a while they started to date, and it’s been going on for about two years now. They’re definitely intimate sexually, but … not madly in love? I mean, not the head over heels type of romanticism you see in young couples? Like they’ve got more the interactions you’d see in a couple that’s been married for several years? I know Betty has no interest in marrying again, but she’d appreciate a continuing comradeship/companionship/close friendship. I think it’s similar for Dave. They like each other, enjoy being together, share interests, have fun together but there’s no “I’ll die if we don’t get together” drive. I don’t know if that clarifies anything, sorry.

After reading all the messages, I’m wondering if maybe that can somehow divide their relationship into two aspects?

First, set up a genuine landlord/renter deal, with a hashed out contract and all. Someone (Olsen, maybe?) suggested checking on Zillow or such to find out what it would cost to rent Betty’s house, and Dave would pay half of that, plus splitting grocery costs. That sounds like an objectively fair approach. He’d be assigned a bedroom as ‘his’, whether he sleeps there routinely, or uses it as office/hobby room/man cave/whatever. Rules for who can/must do whatever chore split, rules about how the relationship would end if necessary (like must get/give X notification) whether they can invite guests, add pets, all the usual rental stuff.

Consider the interpersonal relationship stuff as separately as they can. There they work things out on the fly, just as any couples do.

Maybe?

24

Almost.

When a house is put up for rent, the owner intends to cover all their costs, and make a profit. If the owner was just trying to break even, they’d rent it for less. How much less? Darn good question. I’m sure we have some landlords here on the Dope who can offer some rules of thumb.

If Betty intends to profit off Dave, then “half the rent of the Zillow comp(s)” is a good number. If they both want a break-even situation vs the other, then the right number is somewhat smaller.


Agree Dave has the vast bulk of short term risk if this goes south quickly. Terminate lease on current place, locate and lease new residence, store furniture, move furniture twice, etc.

OTOH, Betty has long term risk if things go south later and she’s forced to try to evict an uncooperative jerk who’s a long-term tenant by then with long-term tenant’s rights.


These folks are a little younger than GF & I are. But still old enough to need to begin to consider what happens if somebody gets infirm along the way. Or expensively infirm, needing a bunch of accommodations. Is Betty ready to spring for a handicapped-compatible remodeling of her home if Dave becomes wheelchair bound a decade before she has any mobility problems?

They don’t need hard answers today. But if the possibility hasn’t entered their minds, they’re not done w their due diligence.

25

Have either Betty or Dave asked your opinion? Or are you thinking ahead to when one of them might? Perhaps they should seek couples counseling to work some of this out or a professional who draws up pre-nups. Even if they are not planning to get married, it involves a lot of the same thought processes and considerations.

26

I think this is really central, and it makes me wonder if some of the Dave bashing stems from old-school gender expectations making it more acceptable for dudes to support women than the reverse.

27

You’re mistaken. Gender is irrelevant here.

28

Upon reflection, since Betty wants Dave to pay more I don’t see her as feeling magnanimous towards him. Point taken.

29

This is the big difference between what you and your friend did and the apparent attitude of the couple, who both seem the be more concerned about themselves and not looking out for the other person.

Actually, just by the description given here, Dave seems particularly concerned about not being being taken advantage of, but Betty doesn’t seem to be particularly generous, either.

30

This is interesting. Will Dave be contributing anything like lawn care which should save Betty some money. When he agreed to split costs was he including the property taxes, etc or just the utilities? Is he going to buy groceries or are they splitting the cost? Is he going to do the shopping? I guess I’m thinking along the lines of if Dave isn’t providing more monetary assistance is he willing to put in the time to keep them and the house in good order.
Keep us posted.

31

Sharing a house on an informal basis can be fraught with potential problems. Here are some concerns that come to mind:

What about labor? Are they going to have defined duties about who does which chores? Especially things that get done every day like cooking and washing up, and every week like cleaning and yard work. Is Dave handy, can he help save money on handyman-type work? Or is Betty already able to do that stuff on her own? Dave should get credit/rent reduction for any of the work around the house that he will do that Betty is either doing herself now or paying someone else to do.

What happens if Betty wants Dave to leave and he doesn’t want to go? What are her rights in her jurisdiction (this was mentioned above). In San Francisco where I live, I would be very reluctant to take on a housemate, they seem to automatically get tenant rights, and eviction of tenants in this city is very difficult. This especially may need to be handled by a legal document such as a lease or rental agreement, vetted by a lawyer to be applicable and enforceable in their jurisdiction.

What parts of the house will be shared (e.g. kitchen, living room, bathroom, yard) and which will be private (bedrooms)?

As to the basics of rent, Dave should pay some, probably less than he was paying for his apartment, but I can’t imagine how he can justify getting a free ride. Betty deserves some compensation for her frugality in having a paid-for house and for putting a roof over his head. It’s not profit, it will help defray her expenses in such things as replacing household fixtures (appliances, carpeting and furniture, etc.) as they wear out, and any larger repairs. Things happen to houses – water leaks, roof repairs, storm damage, dry rot, and on and on, and all that needs to be considered.

Whether their relationship were going to be just housemates, or friends with benefits, or a full-on relationship short of marriage, all these things need to be considered in a business-like manner, or they will just be heading for trouble.

32

Gender ought to be irrelevant here. Whether it is or isn’t in the minds of Betty, Dave, or any poster here is very much another question.

From the facts we’ve seen so far in this case, Dave is seemingly trying to (partly? mostly?) freeload on Betty. Which offends the classic genderist POV of male as primary payer. Right now Betty is seemingly having none of that, and good for her if so.

But as I’ve pointed out upthread, who’s freeloading on who isn’t always as obvious as all that until we dig a bunch deeper. From my reading of the case I see a bunch of suggestive smoke, but no actual fire yet.


IMO that’s really the bottom line. This stuff gets real deep real quick and an ounce of planning and preparation outweighs a ton of cure.

33

Every situation I have been in with roommates had everyone buying their own food–there never was any discussion about pooling money to buy food together.

34

Agreed, but it seems like their relationship is more than just being roommates which is why I asked.

35

The OP has come back and clarified that they are definitely FWB and in many ways similar to a long-time married couple. Just not wanting to get married at this stage of life. Much more than mere roommates.

So I’d expect joint homecooked meals to be the norm at least for dinner, not two people separately making their sandwich or heating their restaurant leftovers for dinner.