I wish I knew whether or not this was a good deal, or even a good system, but I honestly don’t know. I partly ask because this is an intelligent bunch, and I partly ask because someone here who I respect when it comes to ‘pc-talk’, as it were, recommended these guys ( Alienware )
So, what’ya think?
Case- Dragon Full-Tower Case (340-Watt PS)
Processor- Intel Pentium 4 Processor 1.8GHz 400MHz FSB
MB- Intel 850 Based MB w/1 AGP/5PCI/1CNR RDRAM
Memory- 786MB RDRAM (PC-800) P4 Only
Keyboard- 107 Enhanced Windows Keyboard
Mouse- None (Using an optical mouse)
HD- 60GB HD 8.5ms seek time, 72000RPM, UltraATA
Video Card- (Vid card w/be an NVIDIA Ge-Force 3 AGP, but not included in the price)
Sound- SoundBlaster Audigy 5.1 Gamer
DVD- None… Why would I want to watch DVD’s on my comp?
CD-RW- PlexWriter 24X/10X Write 40X Read CD-RW Recordable-IDE
Speakers- Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 400 Watt THX Speakers & Sub
Printer- HP Photosmart 1218 USB
OS- Windows XP (But I’ll scrap that and use win 98SE)
PRICE= $2513.00
Well?
Too expensive for what I get? Is what I’m getting good/great (I want it to rock)?
I honestly don’t know. I can spend three thousand on the system, but this looks good to me at twenty-five hundred…. but is it?
Again, my purchase depends on what I hear- thumbs up/thumbs down?
alienware make great computers. But their main feature is that you can call them free 24 hours a day about anything & youll get your tech support. Otherwise take alist of that stuff to a local computer store & get their price. I would stay with XP though.
If you’re looking for a no-frills computer at bargain basement prices, you might want to check out http://www.pricewatch.com/
I bought a 1.2 GHz Athlon through that web site a few months back and it’s been a pretty good game platform. I ended up paying less than half of what anybody else was charging.
A P4 1.8 GHz system is listed under $600. Of course, once you add all your extras maybe it wouldn’t end up any cheaper. (Price Watch also prices the extras, fyi)
The reason I’m looking to these guys is that they have nice write-ups in articles that I’ve read, and, well, I don’t know why else.
I’m going to stick with windows, because that’s what I’m used to. Besides, the platform works well for the games and general use apps that I want to run.
When it comes down to what I want out of it, I want a system that smokes for games and won’t be outdated within the next month.
That looks like a good system. Alienware has always come highly recommended to me, so I believe they are a good choice as a computer vendor.
I generally build my own computers, and sometimes you can save a lot of money that way. However, if you’re not comfortable providing your own support, it may be worth it to just buy a system. That’s where it sounds like you are coming from. In that case, I’d definately lean towards Alienware or Falcon Northwest ( http://www.falcon-nw.com ).
Now, something I’d recommend you take another look at is the processor. These days AMD Processors offer higher performance for the money, in most cases. Alienware offers a system that can be configured identically, but with an AMD Athlon XP 1800 (1.53 Ghz) and DDR-SDRAM. It tallied up about $250 cheaper when I ran through their online configurator.
The Pentium 4’s have higher clockspeeds, but the Athlons execute more instructions per clock. The Athlon XP 1800 is about as fast as the Pentium 4 2 Ghz in most benchmarks, but it is less expensive. The Pentium 4 systems also require the use of RD-RAM, which is more expensive than DDR-SDRAM. On a tangential topic: RAMBUS, the company that designed RDRAM, has maintained fairly shady business practices. I have chosen not to use any product that contains RDRAM becuase I do not want to support them in any way, and there are alternatives. This is obvously a personal choice, but the fact remains that RDRAM is more expenseive and not really any better in most cases.
Also, you may have no desire to watch DVDs on your computer. I know I don’t! But you may want to get the drive anyway. I believe it only added a small amount to the system’s price. You can use it as a regular CD-ROM drive, which means that you will be able to copy CDs from it to your CD-RW. And it will allow you to read DVD-ROMs, should they become more common. I’ve found it to be pretty handy to have two CD drives on a system.
Wow… Thanks Enigma42- that’s just the advice I was looking for.
I too wondered about getting an AMD or a Pentium. Call it sticking with the tried and trued, or whatever, but I just went along with the Pentium because it’s what I’m used to.
Thanks to some good arguments on your part, I went back and did a run with AMD as the processor instead of the Pentium.
You’re right- it’s cheaper. Out of curiosity, why would that be?
Secondly, I’m having questions with myself over the memory part of that site. I’d always thought there was a limit to how high that memory could be before it became a waste. Would it make sense with the AMD to crank up the memory to 1 Ghz DDR-SDRAM, or is that over-kill?
The same question goes for the Pentium too. Isn’t there an upper limit?
I’m curious more than anything and I’d hate to blow my money on something that has zero effect, as it were.
In terms of your issues with Rambus- hey, if they take part in crappy deals or some-such thing, then sure, I’ll avoid them. But, there is a caveat, does that cloud the notion that it’s still inferior to the RDRAM?
Finally, I agree with your point on the DVD. I initially left if out thinking I’d take the one from the current set-up and move it into the new one. But, thinking about it more, I guess it does make sense to go with it. I have it up on a second window, and it adds only $78.00 to the overall price.
Now, with that saved money, and assuming I stick with Alienware, is there another area I could add to that I’m currently not?
Again, thanks a lot. What people say here will weigh heavily, if not completely, on what computer I get next. I appreciate it.
CNoteChris, I believe the primary reason AMDs are cheaper is simply that AMD wants to take market share from Intel. I don’t have any idea about the relative costs of manufacturing and that sort of thing. . . But I do know that AMD is making a pretty darn good product these days, and they are will to sell it for less than a nearly equivalent product from Intel. Intels’ parts cost more because they are established and they believe people are willing to pay more. Also, the Intel chips are linked with the RDRAM (lots more below), which costs more than the ram used alongside the AMD chips.
There is certainly going to be a point where you’re not getting maximum value out of that RAM. But where is that point? That’s the harder question. It heavily depends on what you do with the computer. I use Photoshop and 3D Studio Max, and I can use all the RAM I can throw at my computer! For the average user though, the value tapers off around 512 MB. RAM is cheap right now, so I generally recommend between 512 MB and 1 GB these days. If you tend to be a ‘power user’ go with more. Anyway, the next version of Office might require at least a gig to run. . .
RAMBUS has done some things that I actually consider to be quite deplorable. Not just crappy deals here. Outright fraud and unethical practices. I’m actually a bit disappointed in Intel for maintaining their tight relationship with RAMBUS. Now, like I said, this is a personal thing. I wouldn’t presume to tell anyone not to use RAMBUS if it were truly better. But I don’t think it is.
It’s a tricky issue with the Pentium 4’s though, because all of Intel’s motherboard chipsets available for the P4 require RDRAM (Currently anyway, but this will be changing soon). So you can’t just choose a P4 and get some other kind of RAM at this time. When Pentium III’s were still the top of Intel’s line and they were available with RDRAM, there was no tangible benefit to it in the vast majority of cases. The P4 is a very different architecture, and it makes much better use of RDRAM’s nature (high bandwidth, but also high latency). But preliminary benchmark testing with new chipsets running P4s along with DDR-SDRAM indicate that RDRAM is still not significantly better.
Finally, RDRAM is a proprietary part. A large chunk of the price goes toward paying RAMBUS’s fees. SDRAM and DDR-SDRAM are industry standards. Just in general principle, I would rather support the open standard when it is as good and I have a choice. I would bother me that I’d be paying extra for the proprietary part when it isn’t even a significant improvement. Does that all make any sense? Ahh, buying a computer shouldn’t require philoshopy and ethics, should it? Oh well.
You could always add peripherals, such as a scanner, if you need them. But in terms of the actual computer, there’s not much. One thing you could explore is adding more harddrives and setting up a RAID array. If you are interested in something like video editing, this could be worthwhile. But realistically, most people don’t have much need for faster disk access.
I’d say you’re on the right track with your vendor and component choices.
What do you need this computer for? If you’re a hard core gamer, then maybe you could justify 1Gig of DDR Ram. But if you’re only word processing (or other activities that require the same amount of processing) then you shouldn’t have any issues with cutting back to 512M of Ram.
I’ll second Enigma42 on the Athlon. Cheaper, and still good. They typically run hot, so if you go with it, look into a second case fan. Sure your computer will be loud, but if you’re into flight simulators, you’ll get the real sound of the jet engine…
I believe RDRAM is considered inferior because it’s much more costly to produce or something.
If you want to read up a little on various hardware products, check out Tom’s Hardware Reviews.
Good luck!
Oh, do you already have a monitor? It wasn’t included in your list…
That was my main concern. I’ve had experiences with AMD a while back that didn’t endear me to them. But, it was a while back, so I’ve been out of the loop on how far they’ve come.
For me, it’s primarily a gaming issue. I want high-end graphics and I want them fast (i.e., MS Train Simulator, MS Flight Sim 2000, Half-life whatever version, etc. etc. etc…)
You’ve given me enough reason not to give them my money- I’m easy. Besides, whenever I here those immortal words ‘proprietary’, I shudder. Competition? Gooooood. Proprietary money-grubbing bullshit? Baaaad.
I like the sound of that…. I have no clue what it means, but it sure sounds cool.
It wasn’t because I’m still on the fence about it. I already have an HP A4033A twenty-one incher, and a secondary Dell seventeen inch monitor running on the same system. But, I’ve never been able to find drivers for this monitor (At one time- eons ago- it was the bee’s knees, now I’m not so sure), and I have my suspicions on how much longer it will last. So, like I said, I’m on the fence with it. If it’d make more sense to put the funds towards the computer and hold of on the monitor until later, then I will. If I’m at the top now, then I might just add a new one and give the current one away.
Again, thanks. This is exactly what I was after, and it’s swayed me more than you know.
i would seriously consider an AMD processor. i just got one a few months ago and its great. much cheaper and i dont notice any performance decrease or anything
Count me on the AMD side. About RAMBUS, our company was one of the first ones on the bandwagon buying that crap. All the tech types myself included, were anxious to get our hands on the new rambus machines(especially since our employer was footing the bill). Then the machines arrived, the benchmarks started coming out, and we realized we had been had. none of the significant speed boost we had been promised.
Do yourself a big favor, play with XP a while before you decide to ditch it and downgrade to win9x. It is faster and more stable than previous versions, and all the cool games run great on it. You can always change your mind later. If you are definately gonna go with win9x, dont waste your money on more memory than 512. Win9x doesnt really efectivly use that much anyway(I don’t have a cite, but there is one buried in the microsoft KB somewhere about the limitations of memory use). And when you get around to upgrading to XP later(and you will), memory will only be cheaper.
I say you will because I heard all the same hesitance from people when windows 3.0 came out. People swore they would never leave DOS. Then when Windows 95 came out…I had one lady quit her job at the insurance company I worked at because we upgraded her machine to 95, and then with 98…How many people do you know who run window 3.11 on thier pentium 3? Windows 9x is now deceased, it is no more, and its time to move on.
RAID is a type of disk setup where data is spread across several hard drives.
It can be configured in several ways. All the differant levels of raid are explained here, but to sumerize, it can be set up to write to both drives at once so that you have a duplicate drive at all times. Its slow, but if you crash, you just pull the bad drive and your back up.
It can also be configured to break up the data and spread it accross multiple drives, resulting in faster transfer speeds.
Then there are inbetween settings, where the data is spread over a couple of drives, as well as parit information so if a drive goes bad it can be recreated from the remaining drives and the parity info.
Memories, like the stories of my, Half-Life…
(sorry)
[Ahem] I haven’t seen the official Microsoft document, but from a couple independent tests online I have seen (using MS OS’s), most games only really use 196 megs, with a couple using 256. -Well, how much they use I don’t know, but more than that didn’t add any speed, and sometimes actually slowed it down a bit. Going from 256 to 512 megs caused as much as a 5% decrease in FPS.
Higher-end multimedia stuff can benefit from more though.
~
And pay early-adopter price for the next beta Microsoft product? …uh, -no thanks.
-This is skirting a GD, but Win98 is far from dead. It has three years of bug patches available and new hardware still comes with Win98 drivers. I likely won’t move from 98 until new hardware and software aren’t supported by it, seeing as XP has no significant benefits above 98. Plug-and-play was MS’s last good idea. - MC
Alienware machines are pretty pricey. They are quality machines, but if you shop around you should be able to find an equivalent box for much less.
I went to Gateway’s site and tried to build one roughly equivalent to what you got. Didn’t have that printer available or that much RAM, but this is what I got for $1649, including shipping and handling…
Floppy Drive - 3.5" 1.44MB diskette drive
Keyboard - Multi-function Keyboard
Case - Gateway Micro-Tower Case
Processor - Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 1.7GHz
Memory - 512MB SDRAM (2-256MB modules) (this added too much to the price, I’d go with the base amount and add your own and knock $180 off of the price)
Hard Drive - 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
CD-ROM - 20x min./48x max. CD-ROM Drive and Recordable /ReWriteable
Operating System - Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Application Software - Microsoft® Works Suite 2001 - Including Microsoft® Word and Encarta
Video - 64MB DDR NVIDIA™ GeForce3 AGP Graphics with TV Out
Mouse - Logitech USB Optical Wheel Mouse and Gateway mouse pad
Sound System - SoundBlaster Live! Value with Digital Audio Output
Speakers - Boston Acoustics BA735 Digital Speakers w/Subwoofer
Modem - 56K PCI Modem with 1 year America Online Internet access
Network Adapter - Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
This is similar to the computer I recently got from Gateway for just over $1000 - I didn’t add any RAM, went with the 1.5Ghz processor, and I got a 64MB GeForce 2 (I will upgrade to a GeForce 3 when they are cheaper in a few months). I’d go to their site and fiddle around with their menu-based customization system and see what you can come up with, you will spend a lot less than you would on an Alienware box.
I’m helping my mom choose her next machine. She’s a near-power user. We’ve gone with Dell. They’re a pretty good bang for the buck. From memory, we settled on:
P4/1.6 GHz
256 meg (they have a deal on memory right now)
40 gig
DVD (they’re running a deal on these, too)
CD/RW
nVidia GeForce2
19" monitor
Win XP
Mouse, keyboard, 10/100 NIC
for around $1450
IMHO, more than 256 meg of RAM isn’t necessary unless you’re editing large images or rendering large 3D scenes.
Also, Dell wanted $50/.1 GHz to go faster. I recommended to my mom that spending an extra $200 for 25% speed increase to 2.0 GHz wasn’t worth the money. I see irony is saying 400 MHz isn’t worth $200, anymore
Hard disk size is regulated by how much of a pack-rat you are. My mom isn’t, so 40 gig should last her until her next machine.
One final thing I’m recommending to my mom is to keep her old machine, reformat it to clean it off, and use it for stuff she doesn’t use very often. Her scanner, for example. Basically, get as much software off of her “main” machine as possible, to keep it stable longer.
I’ve read a lot of good things about Athlons. My mom wants rock-solid reliability, and Dells have a very good reputation. And Dell sells only Intels. So that made our decision, there.
Regarding Alienware, their systems are rock solid and top rated. In every review I’ve seen, they’ve come out on top, and this included one or two head-to-head comparisons against Falcon NW. (In Falcon’s defense, they’ve “won” a few of these comparisons, but I believe that Alienware’s won the more recent ones.)
I personally have an Area 51 that I bought from them about two years ago when I needed a beefy(ish) desktop in a hurry, both for gaming and for video editing. The proc was shaken loose by FedEx, but I figured that problem out fairly quickly and my system’s been pretty solid no matter what I threw at it (which isn’t to say that the typical Windows bloat wasn’t an issue, but still).
Someone will come in and say that you can build a computer with all the same components for a lot cheaper, and they’ll be right. OTOH, you’ll have a computer that will be built by experts, and tested for a 24 hour period (I forget if it’s a real stress test or not, though), and their tech support is pretty good, when Florida’s not being beset by hurricanes. That being said, I never needed to call them after that whole lose processor thing.
Sure you can go cheaper getting a Dell or a Gateway. You can go even cheaper building it yourself if thats your bag. But when you buy a premium gaming maching you are buying more than just a PC. Have you seen the insides of these things? EVERYTHING is tiewrapped down. There is more case fans in there than there are Expos fans in the world. And the cases are bad ass. You bring that thing to your next LAN game and its gonna be worth 2 or 3 frags just from appearence alone. You get good support too. I personally would never buy one (I build my own) but if you want a good gaming system, you can’t go wrong with Alien or Falcon NW.
dead0man
Thanks bdgr and KKBattousai for the information on the RAID array set-up. You two explained it well. At this point, that doesn’t sound like anything I need.
In terms of the AMD issue, I’m leaning towards the AMD. I have to admit I have my concerns, but the more I’ve read on the topic since last night, the more I think the advice going for AMD over Pentium is sound.
(And all of that isn’t saying I’m dismissing anyone’s thoughts or ideas on the subject, it’s basically saying I have my concerns. I want to be more than comfortable when I order the system. Not comfortable in the sense that I’m saving a hundred dollars more than the guy next to me, no, not at all. Comfortable in the sense that what I get is sound, solid, and as good as I can get for the money I’m spending. I’ll get back to this point later…)
Yeah, I’ve got real problems with XP too…. all kinds of issues. The line, ‘it’s much faster and more stable’ than 98SE (Which is what I’d use) almost made me seize out. Everything I’ve read on the speed of XP says it much slower than 98. But in a sense, that’s all moot anyways- whatever I get will come with XP pre-loaded and at some point down the road I’m sure I’ll use it (Elizabeth, this is the big one!! I’m coming home Elizabeth!!!).
But just to keep it safe and friendly, and avoid ugliness, let’s just say my game plan is to get it with XP, scrap it for Win 98 up until the time it makes sense to run XP. Hell, I might even run both, too. But for now, it’ll be Win 98SE (Not that I don’t appreciate the input, bdgr).
Now, addressing the issue of going with a Dell, Gateway, or building the system myself- I’m more than hesitant to ‘cheap out’, as it were, and go with cheaper parts and/or subsystems.
That is, in the case of my current system, I originally picked out a system I really liked. Now again, I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what’s good and what isn’t when picking out the system, so I go with recommendations. As it came down to crunch-time and time to actually buy the thing, a different trend in advice starting popping up with my friends- go cheaper with this, they said.
Well, I did…. and I haven’t been happy about it since. My system isn’t as upgradable as I’d like it to be (VERY important to me-upgradability) and it didn’t ‘feel’ as sound. I don’t know what it is, but skimping out at the last minute was a huge mistake in my case (At that time) and something I don’t want to repeat.
Now, that’s not to say I’ll be happy being completely gouged by these people (Who would?), it’s saying if it cost a couple a bucks more for peace of mind alone, I’ll pay and not get too upset about it.
But, and I know I’m all over the place on this issue- what can I say, it’s how I feel- wavering - - it isn’t my highest priority. My highest priority is getting solid and sound parts and systems- that’s it.
If it means I’m paying twice as much? Forget it. If it means I’m paying a couple hundred bucks extra? Welllllll.
Again, I appreciate those who’ve offered their advice and experiences. I have until Thursday to decide, and where it stand now is-
Alienware AMD Athlon XP 18000 266 W/ 348 MB DDR-SDRAM etc. etc. 60 GB HD NVIDIA GeForce 3 etc. etc. DVD & CD-ROM etc. etc. Klipsh ProMedia.
Will she rock? Will my friends laugh at me for what I’m spending on it, or will I sleep peacefully?
