What does it feel like to have schizophrenia ?

Colibri (and others) – there is certainly a “something” from which many people suffer, a “something” that fits enough observable patterns for us to feel comfortable speaking of it as a unified phenomenon (as opposed to, say, “Gee, lots of people have thoughts and/or feelings that make them and/or other people uncomfortable”). And, yes, research tends to indicate that the observable (and felt) portions of this phenomenon have corollaries in bodily states (including, but not limited to, neural firing patterns, neurochemistry, and genetic patterns).

Nevertheless, despite approximately a century of insistent claims for its existence as a specific condition of physiological CAUSE by the psychiatric profession, I am of the (at least modestly informed) opinion that we cannot yet say, with any assurance, that the built-in differences constitute more than a predisposition towards a reactive pattern that anyone – including you – could experience under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

Certainly the symptoms are not alien to the experience of people who have come to comprehend those experiences as meaningful (rather than meaningless “static”-like) albeit uncomfortable and chaotic mental processes that were, fundamentally, responses of the self to the environment.

A predisposition towards becoming “schizophrenic” (if I may use it as an adjective) does not mean that one’s voices and one’s activity of standing outside the Lincoln Tunnel and blessing the cars as they emerge by touching their hoods are CAUSED by pathologies of the neural tissue, genetic glitches, or that culprit so often touted by the Alliance for the Mentally Ill the “chemical imbalance”.

Now as to whether or not I was “misdiagnosed” – it would be one thing if I’d been on a locked ward in the company of people who were substantively different from me, causing me to conclude that I didn’t belong here and that a mistake had been made, but the truth of the matter is that there was no easily drawn line. Perhaps more to the point, when I’ve been to conferences of the National Association for Rights Protection and Advocacy (NARPA) or NY Project Release or National Alliance of Psychiatric Survivors and had the opportunity to sit in huge auditoriums full of people who were most definitely capable of being lucid and coherent, and spoken with them, I’ve heard NOT a recurrent theme of “Gee, they locked me up by accident but eventually realized that and let me go” and NOT “I was causing a disturbance so they threw me in with the nutcases and said I was one of them”, but, rather, “They said I was sick and threw me into a ward full of people with very similar stories, and mostly they were just like us, give or take varying degrees of terror and anger, and no, the shrinks never at any point said ‘whoops, you don’t belong here’, they kept me in for 5 weeks, two months, one year, three years, they forced me to take psych drugs / electroshocked me, they send a Public Health nurse around to try to get me to take my meds, they’ve hauled my ass back in about six times for no reason in particular, saying I’m ‘sick’ and I’m ‘decompensating’, …”

Anyway, we’ve all heard the “Oh, WELL, they obviously made a mistake in YOUR case but what about the genuine blah blah” line a few times too many. No offense intended, but how convenient to say that about anyone who is, in the context of discussing the matter, capable of speaking out about it, that “oh, you don’t count, we mean the REAL schizzies”.

Personally, I think schizophrenia can happen to anyone. Happens to some easier than others, perhaps due to a range of biological predispositional factors, but, ultimately,…
schiz happens.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ShibbOleth *
**

Thank you for the correction ShibbOleth. I did know that. Spellcheck did me wrong again. :slight_smile:

Not sure why I forgot about this earlier… It’s been mentioned that drug users “know” that it’s hallucination whereas schizzo’s don’t… However, with Datura for example, you think you’re normal, maybe a little feverish, and then you get really confused because you’re hearing very real voices, and perceiving very real visual disturbances. I was convinced that somebody was in the room with me saying things and then somehow hiding every time I turned my head to find them, it was just THAT real. I turned over all my furniture multiple times looking for this asshole.

The explanation I’ve heard for such experiences is that the active chemicals in datura, namely scopolamine and atropine, were neurologically active in a particular “primitive” region of the brain that does not deal with logic or awareness (hypothalamus? i’m just randomly stabbing, don’t even know what that does). The part at the end of the spinal cord I believe. Any stimulus information that goes through there has normally already passed through the more developed parts of the brain that deal with “does that make sense?” type questions. This would obviously explain why hallucinations produced here are indiscernible from the real thing. I’m looking for the cite… I can’t find it in either of the two places I normally find such information, so I’m not sure where I read that, and it could be totally invalid.

Anyway, if there is such a region where normally it is “assumed” that whatever comes out is valid, it could partially explain the nature of things like schizophrenia.

I’m not sure if my post actually responds to the OP’s question, but I want to say a couple of things…

Before I wnet to medical school and actually got to meet real live schizophrenics, my understanding of schizophrenia was limited to what I read and was taught by my undergraduate professors at UC Berkeley…

At that time I was convinced that schizophrenia was some sort of adjustment or social disorderthat could be corrected by compassionate “talk therapy” designed to provide the schizophrenic with “insight” into his disturbed thinking, as described in R.D. Laing’s books. This view was encouraged by my UCB profs in psychology, sociology, and literature, who where by-and-large Liberal socialists who deeply distrusted the medical profession, and who felt that mental illness was environmentally caused and defined rather than organically caused.

As much as I beleived and wanted to believe this sociological basis of schizophrenia, I had to abandon it after I actually met, examined, and interacted with schizophrenics on the inpatient and outpatient wards. It seemed quite clear to me that this was an organic brain disease, and a serious and devastating one at that.

amygdyla?

Uh, since I don’t get in anyone else’s head, I can’t compare notes.
I’m not schizophrenic, as I’ve only had one documented “psychotic break.” It takes 6 months of affect to entertain a diagnosis of schizophrenia.
However, since auditory hallucinations have been my companion for 6 years now, I think I might have some insight.
I always have a beginning phase. White noise, soft, then louder over weeks. Deafeningly loud some times, too loud to think, my inner voice isn’t loud enough for me to hear. I start to grind my teeth and have repetitive thoughts, phrases I can’t stop thinking.
This is where I take notice, de-stress, begin anti-depressants, maybe, cry, isolate a source of stress
If it doesn’t work, then the voices begin. I know they are NOT real. They are not mine. They converse with each other. They mean for me to overhear. They are not real, though. I ignore them. They talk louder. I am having trouble with activities because of the noise that has addled me for several weeks/months (think of me as weakened by the white noise, sleep deprived). One day, they start to convince me that they have good ideas. HALT, WHOA, STOP Anti-psychotics, Navane, risperidol.
One 3 month treatment with thiothixane destroyed my short term memory. I couldn’t remember a phone number long enough to dial. One number, dial, next number, dial. Keep my finger on the spot so I can remember which number is next. Do it quickly, so the phone won’t start beeping, and I have to start over. My new friend tardive dyskinesia. My new lifelong companion. At least it didn’t alter my heart rhythm (skipping beats is bad) like a different drug I tried.
I am like every other person, I can take care of it myself. Any general practitioner will give you anti-depressants. I don’t want those other drugs. I am fine without them. Just you wait, I’ll be fine. I don’t see a doctor. I have it under control. I just hope I am not mistaken.
Apricot: college graduate, 2 degrees, married, happy, employed, and sane, already regretting this post.

What would the voices talk about?

I do not mean to make light of this, but Drew Carrey once had this routine where he was wondering why the “voices” were always saying bad things. Is this true? Whenever people hear voices is it usually on the order of “you are going to die” “they are watching you”. Do they ever just talk (to you?) about the weather, liberate France, or just completely benign things?

Can you carry on a conversation with these voices?

The voices do appear to be uniformly negative. When I used to have direct contact with the homeless i had a truly bizzare experience when I was talking to a floridly ill scizophrenic who was telling me what the voices were telling him about me.

It boiled down to the fact that I was lying to him and wanted to harm him and that the residential unit I wanted to take him to was “torture centre” and that he should harm me (specifically by skinning me). Thankfully he had enough insight to realise that this was an illusion.

I never cam across a scizophrenic who heard voices that offered a positive slant on life.

They always say bad things. That’s why they call it paranoid schitzophrenia (you’re supposed to laugh).

I know they are not there, but I can talk to them.
Well, I can when they’re there. The voices are not always there, maybe 1% of the time, but for a stretch of weeks. When they (two, a man and woman) are around, they talk to each other. They want me to overhear. They say things like, “Jumping off a building would be nice.–Oh, yeah, that’d be cool.”
I ignore them, I am not suicidal. I could tell them to shut up, but they’re not real, and I don’t want to talk to them, but my inner thought-voice could interrupt. I don’t want to dignify fake people with an answer. Then I’d be nuts, talking to the voices in my head that I know are hallucinations.
Then, they might start talking about how nice the view would be on top of a building. Maybe they talk about how fresh the air would be. Heaven knows what they would say if I actually went up there. I think they might try to make me look over the edge, or something. I don’t know. I don’t listen to them, remember?
Apricot

Even the deaf hear voices.

I like my friend Cameron, she stops talking to herself to say HI to me.

An ex GF’s father has (trying hard to remember the name) acute schizophrenic something or other… he had schizophrenic episodes but was not schizophrenic per se.

He certainly, like Apricot, functions perfectly well. He (obviously) had a healthy daughter, a fantastic job, and was very, very intelligent.

However, he was also very religious, and his hallucinations were often in the form of Jesus telling him the bad things his daughter was doing. Also, he felt that Jesus had (at least one time) literally thrown him onto his bed in anger over something.

When he was medicated he was almost 100% “normal” (whatever that means, eh AHunter?) if a little… er, lacadasical about life. But when he stopped his medication she (his daughter, my ex) could always tell because he would begin looking at her strangely and asking her strange questions.

I also have a different friend who has a few diagnosed schizophrenics in the family, and I had the opportunity to question him (my friend) about how he had questioned him (his relative who was diagnosed). This person heard voices but none of the voices were directed at him. He was meant to hear them, but they weren’t at him. Many times they were about him. Very troubling and interesting, IMO.

In conclusion, I think schizophrenia is like a cold: a lot of different symptoms got lumped into this term. Now, we don’t say colds don’t exist, and surely we could find a specific pathogen and say, “see, this is a cold,” and likewise we can find a specific subset of currently-named-schizophrenia and say, once and for all, this is schizophrenia, but there are still many similar “diseases” out there which have similar results even if the causes are entirely dissimilar. holistically, then, it might be for the best to treat the effect, because the effect is what is the problem, and there are too many causes to pin down once and for all.

Phenomenologically I find that the brain-in-a-vat thought experiments line up perfectly with why people who hallucinate cannot independantly, at first or possibly at all, distinguish “fact” from “fiction.” I can even understand why over time such a taxonomy could still present difficulties. It is all very troubling, IMO, and very thought-provoking.

Sure, they’re hallucinations. Sure, they’re not real - to US. If you hear them, they are real - to you. Maybe no one else, but their very existance makes them real.

Can you humor me? Next time they show up, talk to them. Not about you - about them. Don’t take no from them for an acceptable answer. Demand they answer your questions. The reason being, they must come from somewhere. A religious man might say demons, a learned man might say your own brain. But they come from somewhere and that somewhere is guaranteed to be at least a minimally intelligent source. In fact, if it is your brain creating them of whole cloth behind your back, that means that your brain has the power also to direct them in whatever desired manner, either directly through your influence or through it’s own. Make sense?

So talk to them, ask them who they are and why they bother you. See if you can come to an understanding that they are not necessary, and you don’t wish them to bother you anymore. If you’re Godly, tell them to leave in His name - if they’re “demons”, you can cast them out in His name. If you’re not a religious person, forget I said that - it doesn’t matter to you.

Point being, these hallucinations are intelligently created and intelligently continued - they come from and intelligent source. An intelligent source, even an undirected source, can be directed and reasoned with.

You don’t have to believe me, but this method works fine with my own voice - only mine’s benevolent, He tells me things I would otherwise not know or remember or infer or understand. Yes, real, concrete things, that can be proven or logically understood and logically followed, not bizarre things like my shoes are made of butterflies. He’s a nice guy. He helps me out, and I honestly and truly believe I am a better person for Him. :slight_smile:

And, in case you’re wondering, I’m not anyone’s patient nor on anyone’s medication. I’m undiagnosed, unharmed, and unharmful.

My own theory depends on what you believe - if you believe solely in the physical world and it’s evidence, then my theory is that schizophrenic symptoms are simply “random” or unregulated brain sub-processes much like the subprocess that makes you, you. It’s just that these aren’t physically in charge of their being, you are. And, usually, that’s a good thing. Remember, the brain, and the body as a whole, is nothing more than an insanely complex organic machine - a machine. It can have problems, sure, but the upside to it’s complexity is that it usually can fix itself. Cancel the subprocesses - or, make them cancel themselves. That said, if you believe in a non-physical world, it’s entirely possible that schitzophrenic symptoms are demons, or something of that nature. Of course, again, if you don’t believe in any of that, then forget I even mentioned it - it doesn’t pertain to you and I won’t feel slighted by your disbelief in the least. Hell, I probably don’t even believe it.

To be honest, I think this is the wrong tack to take. You could tell them to shut up, yes. Would they listen? If they would listen, why is it crazy to tell them to shut up? Perhaps they only say those bad things because they want, or need, to get your attention, and when they say normal things you don’t pay any to them. If they will listen and you don’t tell them, then I, IMHO, think that it is crazier to just allow them to exist than making them cease. Not that any of it is “crazy” in the first place, “they” are a part of “you”, and the only thing that would make that crazy is if you can’t accept that, and force conflict with it. There’s nothing “crazy” about being unusual, the only crazy part is not being at terms with yourself. Also, they may exist only to you, but that doesn’t mean they’re fake. They’re certainly real - otherwise they wouldn’t even exist to you! Finally, you imply you’re afraid to talk to them for fear of actually listening to them - don’t be afraid of that. You’ll only listen if you want to listen - you’re not listening now, are you? And if you want to listen to them tell you to harm yourself, well, then you start to qualify as nuts. :slight_smile:

Physician, heal thyself! Take a minute to try out my theory - take a minute to try to fix yourself. Your brain can do it. Your body can do it. Your brain has the power to alter it’s own chemistry for the worse, why oh why do we not believe that it also has the ability to alter it’s own chemistry for the better? It seems we merely refuse to try.

–Tim

The (thankfully few) times I’ve had voices, they were unpleasant, not just like mean-spirited or belligerent people but contemptuous and strong, and it was really hard not to feel that what they were saying about me (or about my behavior) was true. I could tolerate a little bit of 3rd-party critique, but not from such an angry and unsympathetic source! I have no interest in carrying on a conversation with them.

I firmly believe auditory hallucinations, and other types too, are the result of unexpected brain activity. Unintended activity is mis-interpreted by the brain. A person with such hallucinations has either a propensity to have such electrical disturbances, or an inborn eagerness to interpret these activities as language. I believe this accounts for the link between head injuries and epilepsy and schitzophrenia. It also explains some of the genetic element. These things I believe to be factual.

This is my interpretation, for me: talking to them is exactly the wrong thing to do. It reinforces the brain’s errant behavior. You don’t want to have your brain learn to make out more and more speech from the random misfirings. Listening for the intellegence in the storm is only going to make more things for you to listen to.
In my case, there is always a progression: Meaningless noise to meaningful speech. To interrupt the pathway I use anti-depressants to change brain chemistry, or de-stress methods to help change my current mindset. They are only electrical mistakes, I am not going to lose anything when there are no more.

What’s right for me is right for me. Why go looking for insanity? I like my life, I certainly don’t want to have a metaphysical experience at the expense of my sanity.

I really don’t think you understand. I am going to be charitable and believe that you don’t know what voices can make people do. I would no more give control of my life to random brain activity then give control of my car to my cat. The penalty for error is death.

Apricot
I’d like to clarify. Although I said “auditory hallucinations have been my companion for 6 years now” in my first post, I did not mean to imply that I hear voices constantly. I have gone years without any significant auditory hallucinations. I intended to answer the OP, that is “what does it feel like.” I only added treatment information because it seems to be part of what it “feels like.”

Ahunter3, are you saying that you enjoy having schizophrenia (or whatever it is you prefer to call it)?

This is a very interesting (and disturbing) discussion.

Hearing voices reminds me of the (controversial) book “The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Brain.” The author felt that only a few thousand years ago, humans had a significantly different brain physiology. His theory is that a less-developed connection between the two hemispheres of the brain caused people to interpret ideas as coming from voices.

I don’t want to veer off into the tangent of whether his theory is any good or not. I was just wondering what researchers are looking at in terms of the neurological basis of Schizophrenia. Does it have anything to do with degraded communication between the hemispheres?

I knew a schizophrenic at one point. He was a vey nice guy. Unfortunately he believed that he was God, among other things, an spent a good deal of his time staring at the ceiling. The other people I know who think they’re God (or somehow real important) are jerks.

Overall, on balance (if that’s not an unfortunate choice of words here), I like the ways in which my head seems to work differently than that of most other folks. The voices are a definite exception, but that’s rare; and sometimes I get rather sad about…well, every now and then I get a strong sense of how uninvolved I am with other people, a distinct sense of outside-looking-in. That ranges from “Gee, everyone feels that way sometimes” through shades of “I have a set of life experiences that cause me to ‘homogenize’ less easily, but with the right people under the right circumstances I can be a friend and a participant” all the way over to “Face it, I’m like a sociopath except that I’m not violent. I don’t take other people seriously, do I? And look at them, they do, in some important sense that makes me different, the others do.”

What does it feel like? Well, most people’s sense of reality is attained and supported, in part, by what I call “Did you see that?” moments. That is, most folks are leery of incorporating beliefs that are not shared by other folks, so when something comes along that provokes a “weird” conclusion, they tend to seek corroboration from others. That is not necessarily the ONLY reason they don’t believe aliens are trying to control their thoughts through processes that can be blocked by wearing tinfoil hats, but it’s a big part of it–their first reaction would be to turn to their neighbors and companions and say, “So, ha ha, sunnuvabitch, there are aliens after all, huh? So, uh, holy shit, you think we need to make tinfoil hats or something?” And if everyone else looked back and said “Huh?? What the fuck are you smoking?”, they’d find it difficult to continue to entertain such a weird and uncorroborated belief.

So part of how it feels comes from not having that. Not getting corroboration and not checking for it because you don’t expect it. Accepting that you take some things for granted that other people have never considered, and that you reject things that they take for granted (and expect you to agree with, I might add). And the scary part is that at any given moment you can start entertaining thoughts that aren’t grounded, and build on them, and paint yourself into corners or get all invested in priorities and causes and ways of being that don’t make sense, and there’s no one to give you back a checksum to see if it all adds up, see? It’s like the difference between driving on a paved road and driving in the direction you think you want to go but on hard-packed flatland that extends in all directions.

Me too. I am, of course. So are you, if you look. Did you think he was wrong? It is not only true, it is a truth of rather dramatic importance. And despite the universality of the condition, it is my responsibility to save the world. (Yeah, yours too, so get with it. What are YOU gonna do?)

I’ve been watching this thread with some interest. I’ve experienced all of the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia at some point, although they don’t last for any length of time. :knocks on wood:

I haven’t seen anything described in here that I would disagree with. For me, there were two types of voices. One I could easily identify, and it would occasionally show up to offer a commentary on what was happening. The second type was much more obnoxious; it would mimic the people around me and try to fool me into thinking they were saying things to me that were…well, let’s say that it’s a good thing I always managed to figure out the speaker before I responded. :slight_smile:

I very much agree with AHunter3’s last post; these symptoms are part of what sets me apart from the crowd, and they’re almost part of my identity now. I don’t think that I’m suffering to the point where I need help. On the other hand, it’s difficult growing up different from everybody else, and there’s still a pretty serious stigma attached to mental illness.

I’ve heard an interesting theory regarding the cause of schizophrenia. Some researchers think that the brain operates by putting together all kinds of possibilities and then throwing out the ones that don’t fit (for whatever reason). Schizophrenia, the theory states, is the malfunction of the brain circuitry responsible for selecting among possibilities. I think I read this in a book called The Cerebral Symphony by William Calvin.

It feels pretty normal to me!!!