What does "support our troops" mean, exactly?

Great Debates
61

You obviously didn’t read my earlier post. Here’s a key part of it again:

‘The father of a soldier killed in Iraq threatened to hang himself on the West Pier in Brighton yesterday, moments before Tony Blair’s speech at the Labour Party conference.’

This man loved his son.
He was proud of him being a soldier.
And he was driven to despair because a scumbag politician sent his son to die for a lie.

And if you offered him a ‘support our troops’ sticker, he’d probably spit in your face.
Because this grieving father of a soldier knows the difference between serving your country patriotically and falling for political propaganda.

As for your ludicrous statement ‘The point is that there are thousands of young men and women out there at this very moment that are doing things that many of you are incapable or unwilling to do.’, you simply have no idea about anyone else’s view.
My father fought in WW2. By the grace of God, he wasn’t one of the 450,000 UK casualties.
He fought because it was right to save Europe from an evil regime that was ready to commit genocide. He fought under honourable, honest leadership. Prime Minister Winston Churchill didn’t exploit the war for personal gain, or electoral success. We fought as a united country and we had allies all over the World. And we left the World a better place.
So when we see Bush invade a country which had no WMD’s; when we see companies like Halliburton and Bechtel (closely linked to the Cabinet) making massive war profits; when we see Bush desperately claiming a connection to 9/11; when we see Bush destroying the world-wide sympathy for the US after 9/11; when we see Bush making the World a more dangerous place:

  • we weep for the brave US servicemen who have died in Iraq.

Because they died needlessly.

And if you can’t understand that, I pity you.

62

I hesitate to even bring this up, as merely asking the question might indicate to certain parties that I am in league with al Qaeda, but what the hell:

Why do our troops deserve our unquestioning support?

Soldiers are people; nothing more, nothing less. Some of them are perfectly fine individuals, and some of them are most certainly not. Some of them risk life-and-limb to pull wounded civilians from bombed out houses, some of them strip those civilians naked and make them simulate fallatio on each other. Many of them are neither saints nor villians, and got into the military because they wanted a job and thought the armed forces were a good way to go. I’m guessing a fair percentage of our volunteer military personnel had little appreciation for what might be expected of them when they signed their lives away, and now rue the decision bitterly. Others signed on the day after 9/11/01 because they wanted to serve their country in the War on Terror, knowing full well they may pay the ultimate price. Some of them may just want to kill people, and think this would be a fun way to try. Some of them are great humanitarians who want to bring freedom and democracy to oppressed people around the world, while protecting the country they love. Some of them didn’t have the grades to get into college, figured Uncle Sam would write their meal ticket in the Armed Forces, could give a rat’s tail about politics, and couldn’t tell Osama from Obama.

Now all of these sorts of folks, and many more, are in a War in Iraq. Some of them are representing our country honorably. Some, as we have seen at Abu Ghraib, are not.

I’d rather, especially after Abu Ghraib, grant my support on an individual basis. When I see a soldier, I don’t instantly think “Hero” or “Baby Killer”, or anything in between. I see somebody doing the job they signed on to do, and I guess at this point I rather expect them to do it well, since I’m helping to pay for it. I do feel bad for those who have been trapped by stop-loss measures, but as a child of a veteran, I can say with great confidence that you should never trust the military brass to keep their word to you if they can find a way not to. That’s just how the system works.

So, if “Support Our Troops” means I must automatically revere our Men and Women in Uniform simply because they are soldiers to be a good American and human being, I reject such a notion absolutely.

63

Loopydude:

And nobody said you had to do otherwise.

Having been in a “War” (compared to whats going on now, I don’t think I have much right to call Desert Shield/Storm a war), I can empathize with the heartache of separation and uncertainty.

Sure, I raised my hand and volunteered. Heck, unlike most, I even considered the possibility of going to war (two years in the 2nd Armored Cavalry burned away any foolish notions that all was “Well In The World”), and when Saddam invaded Kuwait, I turned to my soldiers and said, “Pack your bags boys; we’re going to the desert.”

Didn’t make being shot at any more fun; didn’t make the long periods of uncertainty any more bearable. I won’t say that my family’s and friend’s support “got me through,” but it did help, as well as all of the outpouring of support from the people (American people) at home.

So, until an individual servicemember proves themselves to be les than honorable through action or conduct, I will assume that they are at least doing a dirty job a very long way from home, surrounded by people who want to blow them up or kill them, on edge anticipating an attack from any quarter, uncertain as to when they might go home because the politiciians can’t pull their head out of their ass and get things straightened out, etc., etc.

Heck, they might even be doing us proud over there; “Winning The Hearts And Minds,” as they say.

And I will treat them with respect and make sure that they know that they are always welcome home.

64

And I think most of us wish this were exactly the case. This is, in fact, pretty much how I feel about yellow ribbons (and our troops).

But I won’t put one on my car, because I think, to some people, it means precisely the sorts of things other people have listed, some of which I don’t agree with in the least.

65

My question is why do people feel they need to advertise this sentiment? It appears to me that the clear message for most ribbon displayers is “look at me, I’m patriotic, I support my country and the war in Iraq.” And also implies that people should not question our involvement in this war. If you don’t display the ribbon on your car, does that mean you don’t “support our troops” like all your friends? I think that’s what the brilliant people who designed these ribbons

While I recognize admit that some people might be doing it because of family members or friends serving overseas, I’d argue that this is only a small percentage of people who have literally covered their cars with these magnets.

The magnetic-ribbon meme has spread very quickly. I really think many people do it just to be cool, like all their neighbors. It’s just the latest fad, with no real, substantial support implied. People do this to label themselves as part of a group, and simultaneously express their disdain for their fellow Americans who would disagree.

66

I meant to say,
I think that’s what the brilliant people who designed these ribbons were hoping to achieve. No one wants to look unpatriotic.

67

I’d just like to point out that this is not uniquely true of members of the military. We each do things that others are incapable or unwilling to do. That, more or less, is the definition of a society.

68

I feel the same way when I see a fabulously naive and simplistic bumper sticker like “Bush lied, Soldiers died.” But I don’t get personally insulted by it. If the opinion of someone you disagree with affects you (and others who have taken me to task in this thread) in such a viceral and emotional way, there must be a reason.

What is it?

69

True. But for many, military members hold a unique emotional place in our society. It’s sort of the same bond people feel with and for police officers and firefighers. These are people who have voluntarily put themselves in a position to be harmed to do a job that is necessary. And some people choose to publically display their feelings.

70

If you choose to be politically engaged and form an opinion, you have to be emotionally and intellectually ready to accept the concept that there are people who are going to disagree with you.

71

There is nothing “naive” or “simplistic” about that, Evil – at least, not by the standards of phrases short enough to fit on a bumper sticker. Bush lied and, as a result, soldiers (U.S. and Iraqi) died. It really happened.

72

[QUOTE=Evil One]
I feel the same way when I see a fabulously naive and simplistic bumper sticker like “Bush lied, Soldiers died.” But I don’t get personally insulted by it. If the opinion of someone you disagree with affects you (and others who have taken me to task in this thread) in such a viceral and emotional way, there must be a reason.
QUOTE]
I disagree that I feel personally insulted by political sloganeering. What I find bothersome is that patriotic propaganda is often used to manipulate people and stifle debate and rational thinking. One can support and love our country while also objecting to its actions in the war. One could also argue, Evil One, that having someone put up a bumper sticker on their car indicates that they’ve been affected in a “visceral and emotional way.” To clarify, I get the same feeling when seeing a Jesus fish or a Darwin fish on people’s cars–I guess I just don’t understand it.

73

Bush took action based on the intelligence available and an analysis of Saddam’s behavior and history. The 9/11 investigation and other information bear this out. The idea that he knew better and “lied” is an idea created, nurtured and sustained by the left.

74

QUOTE]
What I find bothersome is that patriotic propaganda is often used to manipulate people and stifle debate and rational thinking.
[/QUOTE]

One could also make the case that the herd mentality and thinking of the far left could be interpreted as intellectual propaganda. By that, I mean viewing the facts through an idealogical prism. What fits is taken at face value, what doesn’t is discounted through any intellectual contortions necessary. Both sides do it. And the closer you are to either fringe the more guilty of it you are…because the further you get away from the middle, the harder the facts are to mold to fit your idealogical comfort level.

75

From the Wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_production_and_use_of_weapons_of_mass_destruction:

In view of what Blix found, or failed to find, in Iraq – and based on what we now know Bush knew about the Nigerian yellowcake, etc., etc. – Bush had no good reason to believe Saddam had WMDs. In the highly unlikely event that he reallywas stupid and/or stubborn enough to believe that, he certainly could not have sincerely believed that what weapons Hussein had were a threat to anyone but his own people. And he certainly could not have believed Hussein bore any responsibility for the 9/11 attacks or was a supporter of al-Qaeda. Those were lies Bush told Congress and the American people to get us to support his war.

Now repeat after me, Evil: “Bush lied, soldiers died.” Say it three times.

Oh – and support our troops! Give them what they need most – a real Commander-in-Chief!

76

Again, there is nothing here to disagree with. It’s a sign of the state of political discourse that we liberals often have to sit for lessons like this.

[quote[To me, that’s what “Support Our Troops” means, and regardless of whatever moneymaking scheme someone else came up with, it’s what I signify by displaying a yellow ribbon.[/QUOTE]

Fine, that’s what it means to you. But that’s not what it means to everyone. When you put something on the back of your car, you mean other people to see it. So what it means to you is only a small piece of the picture.

77

You are doing a “Life of Brian” thing here right?

78

I have seen nothing about this to suggest that it supports G.W. Bush or the war in Iraq. I suspect that the people who do see it as such might see Nazi Swastikas in a five-year old’s Pollack-esque fingerpaintings.

People are going to see what they want to see; beacaue there are Police Chaplains and National Guardsmen involved with Support Our Armed Forces, I suppose the loonies here on The Straight Dope will undoubtedly see a “Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy ™.” I am not responsible for the dementia of others who are wound a little too tightly.

mailman: NO! :mad: I am not! :mad:

79

I am one of our troops. I’ve got a desk job, a pretty cushy salary, and a non-trivial feeling of responsibility for anything that happens to our enlisted troops out there. I also feel pretty bad whenever I have to wear the uniform the day something like Abu Ghraib hits the papers – those scum bug me, to put it mildly.

I know a guy who signed up for the Marines after Sept. 11th, and is now finally home from serving in western Iraq, out near Fallujah. I know a few other enlisted guys serving all over: Korea, Japan, Saudi, other places. How do I support our troops? I write letters to the ones I know – and to their officers who are near my rank. The kids, I ask how they’re doing, what I can send to keep their spirits up, whether they need me to run any paperwork to the Pentagon for them, do they have their absentee ballots, and so on. The officers, I ask if they’ve got what they need to take care of their troops, what I can send to make their job easier, who I can talk to on their behalf, and so on.

When I pass anyone wearing the uniform in an airport, I stop for a moment (even if I don’t really have a moment) and thank them. Maybe my haircut gives away the fact that I’m one of them, but I’m in civilian clothes, and a warm handshake and a smile probably goes a long way to keeping their spirits up.

Last but not least, if there’s a one- or two-striper getting dinner in desert fatigues in or near an airport, he doesn’t pay a cent for the meal. If he’s with his family, I won’t embarrass him by usurping the ‘provider’ role – that’s a big deal in a lot of military families – but if he’s alone or with buddies in uniform, it’s a nice way to thank them for their hard work.

80

Thanks, Jurph.