Jesus is considered a Muslim prophet, right? But how much does the Koran actually say about him, and in what major ways does it differ from what the Bible says?
Okay, that link burned my retinas out.
And it is of dubious factual content.
First off, Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. He was not the Messiah (I don’t think there is a Messiah in Islam). Jesus was a prophet. The Qur’an has him speaking immediately after his birth. He was not the son of God nor a part of any Holy Trinity, the notion of which is roundly condemned in the Qur’an.
Um, I don’t know if you actually read that site or just found it on Google, but it’s clearly a site intended to promote Christianity and disparage Islam. For example:
Also
Obviously, this is an anti-Islamic site, and it might even be considered hate speech. At the very least, I’d say the author of the site is deliberately spreading misinformation about Islam in order to promote his own agenda.
Also, it doesn’t answer my question, since it’s not an accurate representation of what’s in the Koran, but rather someone’s very biased (and somewhat offensive) interpretation.
The Qur’an does refer to Jesus as “the Messiah.” You say there’s no “Messiah” in Islam. What exactly did you think the word means? It isn’t necessarily synonymous with “Son of God” or “one of the three persons of the Trinity”, etc. At least not for the Jews who first came up with the word, nor, evidently, for Muslims. I’m not sure exactly what it is supposed to mean, sure, literally it means ‘anointed one,’ but what does that mean, besides getting a dab of Crisco on your noggin? All I know is that the Qur’an uses the Arabic word al-masîh in reference to Jesus and nobody else. It comes from the Arabic verbal root masaha, which means ‘to rub, to wipe’, also ‘to survey’ (land survey). I really don’t get what wiping has to do with surveying land, but that’s Arabic for you.
The Qur’an has all sorts of interesting views of Jesus, like he was born under a palm tree and Mary was able to shake the trunk of the tree so that dates would fall down for her to eat after giving birth. Jesus’s first miracle was to speak as a newborn baby to exonerate his mother after she was suspected of doing something wrong (being an unwed mom). One of the coolest things about Jesus in the Qur’an was how he made a bird out of clay and breathed on it, and it became a real bird and flew away.
I assume that’s in response to Captain Lance Murdoch, right? Because I didn’t mention the Messiah in the OP.
As far as Judaism is concerned, my understanding is that the Messiah is supposed to be a Hebrew king descended from David who would rebuild the original temple and bring about world peace. To date Jesus hasn’t done either of those things, so I can only assume that the term means rather different things to Christians than it does to Jews. I haven’t the faintest idea what it would mean to Muslims.
I’m also none to sure what they would mean by calling Jesus the “surveyor”. (Or the “wiper”? :eek: )
**1. He was a righteous Prophet – Sura 6, Ayat 85 **
2. His Birth:
Christ’s mother is Mary, who was unwed, and ‘untouched by man’. She was informed of her pregnancy by the angels (rather like in the Christian story), the Sura then goes on to describe Christ’s miracles. Sura 3, Ayats 45 onwards .
3. Christ was Israel’s apostle/prophet. – Sura 3 Ayat 49.
4. Christ’s disciples were those initial unbelievers who submitted to the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and subsequenty Mohammed. Sura 3 Ayat 52. (Here ‘Muslim’ is used in its literal sense – ‘one who submits to the will of God’.
5. Christ was not crucified, but another person, who looked similar died on the Cross. Sura 4, Ayat 157.
6. Christ is not the Son of God. In Islam, this is actually blasphemy, since God cannot have any sort of physical form. Sura 9, Ayat 30
I would read the Arabic grammatical form masîh not as ‘the wiper’ (Tiny Tim would make a joke out of that: I… am… the viper, and I vant to vipe your vindows) but as ‘the wipee’, i.e., the one whose head is wiped with a bit of Crisco.
[Did anyone else read this as “What Does the Korean Say About Jesus” and think, WTF?]
The Korean would probably say something like "왜 그들은 꾸란을 숙고하지 않느뇨 만일 그것이 하나님이 아 닌 다른 것으로부터 왔다면 그들 은 그 안에서 많은 모순을 발견했으리라 "
That’s why I spell Qur’an with a Q!
I’m not sure if this is true as I haven’t personally counted, but I’ve heard that Jesus is the most quoted Prophet in the Qur’an.
The following could be completely wrong:
As I vaguely remember from a history class, the Shia (or is it Sunni? yes, I’m that ignorant) believe that Mohammed was the last prophet in what is known as the “Cycle of the Prophets” (not sure that that’s the name). Jesus was one of these prophets. At the end of the Cycle of the Prophets began the Cycle of the ?Mullahs?
Ok now I just want someone to correct all that crap so I don’t go around spewing ignorance.
Ok, you’re almost there. It is the Shias who believe that after the Prophets came the Imams.
We had the age of guidance by Prophets, of which, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, et al were part of. Mohammad was the last of these. He was the Seal of the Prophets, and destined to ‘perfect God’s religion’, by which is meant any of the Abrahamic religions, not just Islam.
The Koran then refers to man never being left without spritual guidance on this Earth, but with the Age of the Prophets at a close, there was the question of who would guide the people. The answer, as revealed in the Koran, was that the family of Mohammad – the al-Ahl Bayat – would guide the people, as divinely guided hereditary Imams*, after the Prophet’s death, when the Age of Imama (Imamat as opposed to Nabbiya (prophethood)) would begin.
After the death of Mohammad, the Shias and Sunnis split. This is mainly down to the aceptance or non acceptance of the sermon and revalation at Ghadir-e-Kuhm, where Mohammad was given a revalation by God, which declared `Ali as Mohammad’s successor to guide the people spiritually, i.e. as the first Imam.
Hope that helps.
*The Imams that you hear about in Mosques are not al-Ahl Bayat. They are pesh-Imams, or ones to lead the congregation in prayer. According to Shia doctrine, there can only be one true Imam on the face of the Earth at any one time, and the Earth cannot be left without an Imam for even one second, as that would break God’s promise with mankind.
vinniepaz, the doctrine about cycles of prophets combined with cycles of imams is specific to Isma‘ilism. The Isma‘ili Shi‘ites are also called the Seveners. They recognize seven Shi‘ite imams, after which the cycle ended. All their cycles are based on the number 7.
Angua described the doctrine of the Ithna ‘Ashariyah, the Twelver Shi‘ah. They recognize 12 imams, 6 of which they have in common with the Isma‘ilis. The Twelver’s Seventh Imam, Musa al-Kazim, is not recognized by the Isma‘ilis, who instead accept his brother Isma‘il as the Seventh Imam. The 12th Imam of the Twelvers was last seen in the year 872 as he walked down the stairs into a cellar. He was 4 years old at the time. His father had just been murdered. For the next 57 years, he communicated with his followers only through a series of deputies. This was called his “Lesser Occultation.” Just before the last of the deputies died in the year 939, he announced there would be no more deputies and no more communication. This began the “Greater Occultation.” IOW, nothing further has been heard from the 12th Imam since then, but his death has never been reported, so he is considered to still exist somewhere, somehow.
Actually, the doctrine I have described is common to all Ismailis, but the one of a specific guide, even in this day and age, is the belief of Nizari Ismailis, who accept Ismail as the sixth* Imam, and then an unbroken chain of Imams, who spent a few generations concealing their true identities to almost everyone, before conquering Egypt and founding the Fatmid Empire, where the role of Caliph and spiritual leader became one again. Nizari Ismailis believe that even today, there is a spiritual leader, a direct descendant of the Prophet, who is divinely appointed to provide spiritual (as well as secular) guidance to the Ismailis.
*Ismailis also believe that Caliph =/= Imam, so whilst Hasan, the elder son of Ali is recognised as a Caliph – a secular ruler, he is not recognised as a spiritual ruler – that title went straight to his younger brother Hussayn.
While this is (mostly) true, it is taught in Christian doctrine that the Hebrew prophets interpreted the prophecies too literally and Jesus as the King, for example, is the King after the second coming. He is currently the Christian King, but we are the kingdom. It’s questionable about whether or not he will actually rule as King on the physical plane of Earth or only in Heaven.
Jesus was a descendent of David, by the way. (This is debatable but this isn’t the discussion to do it in. Still, it’s in the Bible.) And I don’t remember anywhere saying that he would bring world peace. But I don’t mind being wrong here. One day there will be peace. But… isn’t it the ANTI-christ that is supposed to bring it???
About Jesus in Al Qur’an/Islam (a reposting of what I posted in an earlier thread on this message board. )
In Al Qur’an Jesus is named 25 times “Ibn Marjam ” = son of Maria, 25 times “Isa” = Jesus and 11 times “Al Masih” = the Messiah (in the meaning of “anointed/pure”).
Making a resume (=not following the exact the texts, yet nevertheless the right meaning/intention) from stories about Jesus in sura 3,19, and 21, the story in Al Qur’an goes as follows:
-
Zechariah and the birth of John.
Al Qur’an mentions how God showed mercy to Zechariah when he complains that he is old and doesn’t have a son. God announce the birth of a son who must be named “Jahja” = John.
The story goes on mentioning the doubt of Zechariah en how God reassures him that what God told him shall happen since such things are easy for God. On request of Zechariah God gives him a sign: he shall not be able to speak for 3 days except by use of gestures. Next Zechariah leaves the holy place en made with gesticulations clear to the people that they must praise God in the morning and the evening. Thus God fulfils his wish and Jahja is born.
All tree compete with each other in doing good dead and praise of God and submit themselves humble to God. -
Mary and Jesus
Next Al Qur’an mentions Marjam (=Mary)
We read that her mother when she became pregnant made a vow to God to dedicate her child to Him. When the child was born, she was surprised to see it was a girl. Nevertheless she kept her promise: she named the child Marjam and prayed to God to protect her and her progeny and cursed Satan. The girl was dedicated to God. The care for her was given to Zechariah in the holy place. But every time he visited her, he saw she was provided with food. When asked where she got that, Marjam said ”It comes from God". God gives means of living to whom He wants, without counting for it” (Al Qur’an 3;33-37)
Then God sends her His spirit, who presents himself to her as a good-looking human. Marjam(afraid) put herself under the protection of God, but he said that he was a messenger of God with the message that the Lord would give her a pure boy. She said “how can I receive a boy when no human has touched me; I am not an unchaste woman” He replied that this was easy for God. Out of mercy God would make him (the child) a sign for humanity: thus was decided. (Al Qur’an 19;16-21)
Further is mentioned that God wants the child to be named “Al Masih, Isa ibn Marjam”. He shall be in high esteem in this life and in the afterlife.
There is also mentioned that he shall speak to mankind from in the cradle and as adult. God shall give him the book, the wisdom, the Tawraat (the Thora) and teach him the Indjiel (the gospel). Jesus shall perform as messenger of God to the Israelites. These miracles are meant to be a sign for those who believe (in God) (Al Qur’an 3;45-49)
It goes further about Marjam. She gets pregnant and gets in labour under a palmtree and how the messenger of God tries to comfort and bring her God’s support (Al Qur’an 19,22-60)
Next is described the reactions of the people when she goes back to them with her child and how the child starts talking to them explaining himself as a prophet of God. (Al Qur’an 19,28-33).
There are two versions of the same story:
Sura Marjam (19) talks about the spirit of God who brings as messenger the announcement of the birth of Jesus. In sura Al-imraan (3) there are angels who talk to Mary. This sura also brings a longer version of the story and with more details.
In the later Islamic traditions, and especially in the “stories of the prophets” one can find much more details about Jesus as a child. Most plausible explanation for this is that they show the influence of what people knew about Christian traditions/stories of Jesus.
- About your question how Jesus is seen in Islam:
First of all he is seen as a servant of God, in fact like every Muslim is seen as a servant of God. (see for this for example sura 19;21 and 31,sura 20;17, sura 33;48-49 sura 43,57-64, and sura 51).
About his place among the prophets of God: the story about Jesus it is made clear that the book, which Jesus receives from God, contains the message of God, which is the same for all prophets.
Jesus fits in the pattern of all prophets send by God out of mercy to repeat one and the same message of God about humanity and the world (creation)
Thus Moses and Jesus, Jews and Christians are considered to be believers within the community of the believers.
All prophets of God are considered to be prophets of God. There is no “ranking”.
Salaam. A
Can you give the Quranic reference you use for this?
Not exactly.
The real splitt was a direct result of the outcome of the battle of Siffin in 657 AD, resulting in the desertion of a great part of 'Ali’s men who were referred to as the Kharidjite.
Mu’awyyah was then declared caliph in Syria and took also Egypt. A gathering in Adruh to deicde about who was now really the caliph was to no avail which made the support for 'Ali diminish even further. He ruled then over his territory from Qufa but had no significant role to play. He fought the Kharidjites and could defeat them at Nahrawan in 657 AD, but don’t forget that he was murdered by one of them the 24the of januari 661 AD.
The Shia doctrine developped over time.
One can of course argue that it is not unreasonable to take in account the possibility that there was already a “Shia 'Ali” gathered around 'Ali at the time of the first caliphs = That 'Ali would have liked to be chosen as successor from the beginning and sought and gained support for that ambition right after the death of the Prophet.
Salaam. A
So what of the various biblical passages in which Jesus is named as the son of God (and from memory, states that himself)? Is the Bible wrong, was Jesus lying, was Jesus deluded, or does “son of God” have a different meaning in Islam than its obvious meaning to most people? Something else?
Even in the language of the Old Testament (the New Testament didn’t exist at the time of Jesus) and Hebrew to this day, “bene elohim” [1] which is the original phrase that is translated “son of god” does not mean what a literal English translation would suggest. It means “a godly man” (or a wise, noble or devout man). It is opposed to “bene adam” or “son of man” – a common man.
- I hope someone more diligent will code the hebrew transcription; I’ve forgotten how to do it in the new board)
“Bene elohim” is used to refer to many people in the Old Testament (David, Solomon, etc.) I have heard learned scholars assert that this idiom was lamost certainly used by Jesus for others as well [The evidence, AFAIK, can’t be completely conclusive because we only have Jesus’ words through the Greek New Testament, so any Aramaic or Hebrew would have been translated.]
Similarly, in Genesis, “adam” was not the name of the first man, it simply meant “man.” For comparison, “elohim” is a word that can mean “lords” in both the worldly sense [e.g. “nobility” or even “leader”) and the divine one [i.e. the monotheistic God – the ‘plural’ -him is used as a indicator of respect] and is also commonly translated as “angels” in some Biblical passages.
This caused something of a problem for early Christianity, which had primarily left the Holy Lands soon after Jesus’ death, and developed its scholarly traditions for four centuries in Europe and Asia Minor, using primarily Greek, not Hebrew, texts of the OT. When Christianity returned to the region, where the original languages were spoken, and/or encountered Islam (Arabic used “son of god” in an identical idiomatic fashion), what had seemed to be “self-evident” to the Christians seemed weak or even foolish to Arabs, Hebrews, etc. Hence, you will find that many verses in common translations add words to “bolster the claim”. John 3:16, often called the “most quoted verse in the Bible” is commonly rendered “*For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son…” – but most Bibles have a footnote (at least in the academic versions) stating that there is no word indicating “begotten” in any of the “original” texts [Of course we don’t have true origianl texts, only very old copies which are considered fairly definitive–and the debates that resulted in the addition of “begotten” are in the historical record]
Linguistics can be tricky sometimes sometimes. In the same vein, the languages and history of early Christianity are not my expertise (I only took a few courses at my university’s school of theology), so I hope someone will be along shortly to correct any errors I made.
I can’t remember the Sura/Ayat, but the Quranic verses are:
“Ya ahhul ladhina ammanu Atiullahah, wa aitull rasul, wa ulil amri minkum” <snip> “Wa Kulla shayin asaynahu fi Imamim Mubin”
Translated:
“Oh you who believe, obey Allah, and obey the Prophet, and the Holders of (divine) Authority from amongst you”. <snip> "And we have vested (the knowledge of) everything in the Manifest Imam.
Oh, and I am well aware of the history of the Shia/Sunni split, and the incredibly complex way in which the Shia doctrine developd over time. I should know, seeing as I am a Shia Muslim.