I don’t see anyone on this thread who has taken this position so I’m not sure your point.
If I’m wrong and someone actually has expressed such a view, please point it out.
People on the pro-Israel side have made enough stupid comments that you shouldn’t need to attribute to them comments no one has said.
I have to say that it takes a special kind of arrogance to try and lecture a South African black man on Apartheid.
And no, it’s like Apartheid much less exactly like Apartheid, since South African blacks didn’t have white wives, didn’t vote, didn’t serve in parliament, and none were generals in the army, much less Supreme Court Justices or Cabinet ministers.
Anyway, I’m reminded of one of my favorite bloggers, Ta-Nehisi Coates talking about the black nationalists he knew in college who used to try and regularly prove that somehow or other the black experience in America was worse that what the Jews faced in WWII, or, as they termed it, “the real Holocaust.”
As he put it, it was always rather clear upon questioning that most of the people who made such comments didn’t actually know much about either the Holocaust, or even for that matter slavery. All they were doing was bringing up an inflammatory event to try and make a point and trying to shut down an argument.
With few exceptions, most of the people who claim Israel practices Apartheid, usually prove to know little to nothing about not only Israel, but about the Palestinians or their cause nor, with few exceptions, do they ever show any interest in learning.
Yes, Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is offensive and wrong, but comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa is like comparing the Palestinians to the Nazis and those that do so are engaging in the same arguments.
Update: the White House has officially denied the “refused to meet with Netanyahu” story.
This is a type of discussion I notice happening often, espescially on this board.
The analogy maker notices a lack of an outcry over something bad.
It’s like some people lack sort of a moral compass. They need to have something bad compared to something, that is generally agreed upon to be bad, before it is actually proven to be bad.
Whereupon the other can of course point out where the analogy fails or differs, thereby somehow ‘disproving’ that the situation is bad.
Slight hyperbole with a side of mocking is all.
Not that hard to grasp for most people.
Oh yeah, hyperbole. I think we’re familiar with why someone would use that rather than an honest, factual appraisal of reality.
Joe Klein Shreds Bibi Netanyahu – video
Any merit to what he says? Personally, I think he is spot-on with his take on the whole Iran/Israel kerfuffle.
Ah, I see we’ve now reached the equivalent of the “here’s a YouTube video you all should watch” section after we had the equivalent of the “those people who disagree with me do so because they’re sheeple” bit. Can we expect this will be followed by Just Asking Questions about international politics?
The US has to support Israel, because while Israel is the traditional Jewish homeland, the US - specifically greater New York City - is the de facto Jewish homeland, and the ties between them are strong and deep.
No US administration, regardless of politics, can do without the influence, wealth and prestige of New Yorkers. And whether they’re Jewish or pro-Israel or neither, it’s just going to be a lot harder in general to access those New Yorkers if the administration is seen as actively anti-Israel.
I’ll save him some time and tie it all together; YouTube proof that Jews did 9/11. It even has a whole lot o Questions Just being Asked further down the page.
Must say, excellent rebuttal to Klein’s arguments.
In essence: “blank”
Impressive.
TY
To the degree of acting against its own interests? Say as in getting caught-up in war it didn’t want started to begin with?
That, I couldn’t say.
Fair enough. Appreciate the honesty.
I wasn’t aware Klein’s a Doper. Can you point to where he’s posted and someone has ignored his arguments? Now, maybe I’m mistaken, but I thought that a Doper who isn’t Klein offered up the equivalent of a YouTube video with no commentary or analysis other than a 16-word-blurb that didn’t even identify what the actual issue under discussion was, and that YouTube nugget was dumped into a thread with the expectation that Dopers would do his work for him and flesh out an argument for or against a position which wasn’t even defined.
The reasons for your disappointment are quite obviously valid, as this isn’t just the standard for the Dope where YouTube videos are routinely ignored if they’re the sole contents of a post, and where we realize that someone who only has a YouTube video to offer aint got nuthin’.
Obviously, you are right and this is somehow an exception.
So can you please point us to Mr. Klein’s posts here on the Dope, and we can begin discussing whatever issue it is that he’s posting here to discuss?
Thanks much.
P.S. While we’re at it, that citation where you, in your 10+ years posting here, have ever criticized any other political leader in the entire world for interjecting opinions during election seasons in other nations, ever? That would be appreciated. Ya know, since it’s not just Israel that you object to and it is a consistent position that you hold… surely you’ve mentioned it, even in passing, at least once in more than a decade.
We’ll get the citation for all those posts around the same time we get to start talking with Mr. Klein, the Doper, about his arguments, I assume.
Backlash against Netanyahu’s erratic comments begin to surface:
Has Bibi Netanyahu’s Criticism of Obama’s Iran Policy Gone Too Far?
– highlights mine.
Interesting times.
So, you planning on making a point any time soon?
I’ll let the readers decide whether I’ve already made one (and quite clear at that) or whether some in this thread are tone-deaf when it comes to Anything Involving Israel.
Cheers.
So you don’t plan on making any points (or posting anything that isn’t someone else’s words?), but you are prepared to employ maximum vacuous snark.
So noted.
Your concern over those who have problems with Anything Involving Israel is quite proper, and surely not more “hyperbole”, like your last bit. Speaking of your idea that there are some here who have problems with Anything Involving Israel (oh, sorry, problems with seeing all the very many negatives things you see with regards to Anything Involving Israel) , you seem to have forgotten to provide a cite. Here, let me remind you:
You’re not one of them thar folks who’ve got problems “when it comes to Anything Involving Israel”. It’s those other folks, the bad folks. Grrr. It’s certainly not a fictional, fallacious, malicious, obfuscatory label you apply to those who disagree with you when you can’t approach let alone overcome their arguments with facts or logic, and you certainly aren’t one of those AII-folks. They’re bad and wrong, as we’ve established.
And you’ll provide a cite to that effect any minute now, because such a cite actually exists and you can provide it. Any minute now.
Any minute.
Oh snap!!!
Remind me why it is always Obama’s fault that Netenyahu and Obama don’t get along? Isn’t it remotely possible that Netenyahu is the fucking problem here?
I understand that zionism started before WWI, in fact it predates the Balfour declaration, it goes back to the 1800’s but we didn’t see a lot of terrorism back then. We didn’t see terrorism between WWI and WWII. We didn’t see it until after the creation fo Israel.
I agree that the carving up of the Ottoman empire created all sorts of problems but why did those problem have a 30 year incubation period?
Sure there would be all sorts of asshattery coming out of that region with or without Israel’s formation but do you really think that Israel’s creation is a neutral factor?
American military spending accounts for less than 45% of global military spending. In other words the rest of the world spends more than we do. There are two ways to fix that. We can increase our spending so that we account for 50+% of global military spending (but that would increase our deficits) OR we can destroy some of the other countries that are spending money on their military (and its not like it will cost that much more to bomb the crap out of some of these countries). Why buy bullets and let them go bad in the basement.
Its not like they can’t donate to superPacs.
You’re a black man from South Africa?!?!?!