Could you post a link to the 1920’s genocide? I am unaware of it. Granted my understanding of the time is an odd assortment of websites and a book about Ataturk. None of which deal with Armenians directly.
The largest concentration of Kurds are in Turkey, and they, or at least many of the groups of Kurds that further subdivide the ethnicity we know as Kurd, fought alongside the Turks to form the borders of modern day Turkey. It’s their endless bad luck they assisted in this effort to form their own border and then had their identity stolen by nationalistic ideology.
Interestingly, the part of the Kurdish territory that is now in Iraq might have been part of the Republic of Turkey since the Turkish goal was all the land south of the current Turkish border into Mosul. So in a way, the Iraqi Kurds fate was determined by a peace treaty between the Turks and the Allies.
The second largest concentration of Kurds is in Iran. I am not 100% sure but I do not think their border was ever determined by British subdivision of the Ottoman Empire.
Sorry to keep hijacking, but reading defenses of Netanyahu’s meddling in our election is so boring.
What horrible meddling it is for a politician to make political comments on a political issue that may be an important voting priority for some during this political season leading up to our country’s largest political election. What unmitigated meddling, does he think that elections are about politics, or something? Next thing you know, some politician or other will make some claim or another that voters will have to decide on one way or another. And that’s not how elections work!
For the love of fuck, pretending that there’s anything wrong with this situation in principle is an absurdity. That it’s somehow “meddling” to discuss foreign policy during an election is rhetorical gamesmanship of the first order.
My apologies to you, the board, and the Turkish and Armenian peoples; seems to have been earlier. I had thought it was a post WWI event, but seems otherwise.
I think you are correct; however, the borders between Turkey, Iraq, and Syria pretty much were. I don’t know who drew the Turkey/Iran border.
And…well, at least this deals with matters of fact, not just opinion. It’s nice to talk about things, now and then, where there actually are right (and wrong) answers!
Because it enabled the Brits to first back the Zionists (the Balfour Declaration) despite contrary promises made to Arab leaders (in order to enlist their help in fighting the turks, a la Lawrence of Arabia) and then, in response to Arab protests, rioting and (yes) terrorism (the Arab riots, the Hebron Massacre, etc.) withdrew that support (the White Paper). This encouraged the Zionists to create their own underground armies (the Haganah) and extremist groups (Irgun, Stern Gang) which indulged in anti-Arab terrorism of their own, since it was obvious that the Brits would not protect them and that they responded favourably to terrorism.
In summary, the carve-up of the Ottoman Empire lead directly to (1) encouraging the Zionist entity and (2) inter-communal conflict (stirred up by British blunderings, in particular waffling on support for Arab Nationalists and the Zionists and moulding their policies to apparently reward/appease terrorism - in the 30s in particular it just seemed the Brits could do nothing right).
That’s how the carving-up of the Ottoman Empire spawned the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Ibn Warraq, this topic is always a trigger for anger. To insist on referring to another’s views as “incredibly stupid” when it would be just as accurate to simply say “very wrong” is not necessary for a serious discussion.
EVERYONE, dial back on the adjectives intended to incite emotons over discussion.
You know, for the strident declarations Netanyahu is running around making about a “red line,” it certainly strikes me as beyond ironic that he, himself has not drawn such a line. Of course thinking about further it simply makes sense, for if he did, he’d be committing Israel to waging war by some still undefined level of enrichment level and/or activity by Iran. In short, where’s the casus belli as defined by Israel, right now?
Meanwhile the US, via the Obama Administration he seems to dislike so much, has put in place the toughest sanctions ever on Iran, built a large scale global coalition, given Israel all the military hardware it wanted and has worked in a number of covert programs. All the while knowing that a nuclear Iran represents absolutely no thread to its own national security. And yet they (the US) are the ones that are expected to draw Israel’s much-wanted “red-line” and thus commit to certain war?
So I’m assuming Bibi and the Israeli’s will be fine if, during the next Israeli election the US President says “If Bibi is PM after the election, all aid to Israel will be cut off.” Turn about is fair play.
Why do you think Yitzhak Shamir got dumped in favor of Yitzhak Rabin?
At least part of the reason was because George H. W. Bush made it clear he wasn’t going to play ball with Shamir and he and Baker put the squeeze to Israel.
I know there’s a widespread persistent myth on the part of both those who are pro- and anti-Israel that when the Israelis say “jump” their Shabbos Goy/US President says “how high” but that’s never been the case.
Actually, if “red line” means “official and guaranteed commitment to attack, unilaterally if necessary, if and when the following specific conditions are met”, then ISTM that Israel does not yet have an actual “red line” stance, according to your linked January 25 article.
That is, the status of the situation back at the end of January was that the Israeli administration had identified three necessary conditions for an Israeli attack on Iran. But they had not officially committed to declaring those conditions sufficient to mandate an Israeli attack on Iran. And AFAICT, they still haven’t.