What draws the line on discrimination?

I was looking at some new cars at a dealer today. One has a rebate of $400 for college grads. When I spoke to the salescrook, he told me that the rebate was only for “recent” college grads, i.e., last 2 years. I graduated almost 20 years ago, so I’m SOL.

So, of course I’m pissy about this. What I want to know is, why is this kind of discrimination allowed, but not other kinds? What is the difference between favoring a recent college grad over me, and say, offering the rebate to white people only? How about a $400 rebate for non-gays, or English speaking only. What is the difference? Somewhere along the line the rebate policy is descriminating against someone. Why is it allowed to discriminate against anyone? Where does the line get drawn? If the dealership advertised “higher prices for blacks, lower prices for whites” they’d have the law on their back. Yet what they are essentially telling me is “higher prices for older people”. Why is this allowed, and should it be?

There is an obvious and fatal flaw in pkbites’s thinking here. See if you can spot it at home, kids!

All those “rebates” and guaranteed trade-in allowances are gimmicks for the unwary and easily confused. The mark of an amateur is usually along the lines of “Boy, did I get a great deal at the dealership on this car!!!”

The rebate would actually be useful, though. After you’ve negotiated and finalized a decent price for the car-- Your ace in the hole, say. Once they allow that the “rebate” only applies to recent grads, get up and walk if they don’t change their tune. Works every time.

You have to realize that anti-discrimination has to stop somewhere. If all forms of “discrimination” became illegal it would considerably tie the hands of businesses and the free market. The local pizza place couldn’t offer free pizza to the winner of the local little league - wouldn’t be fair to the other teams. The local sandwich shop couldn’t give a discount to those who gave blood - wouldn’t be fair to those who didn’t. Perfect school attendance couldn’t be awarded with tickets to a baseball game - wouldn’t be fair to those who were sick. I am sure there are other, and better, examples than the ones I gave, but hey, it’s early.

The key, in my opinion, is to outlaw the few forms of discrimination that are abjectly immoral, and leave the others be. Don’t be disheartened, however, it won’t be too long till you can claim the senior citizens discount at your local movie theater.:wink:

pldennison, the answer to your obvious bit of pedantry is that people can graduate college at any age. Sheesh
-Beeblebrox

“If there’s anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.”

It wasn’t pedantry at all. pkbites was trying to cast the “college grads” deal as a case of age discrimination, which it clearly isn’t.

Granted, younger college grads are the target for the sale–they’ve just gotten their BA or BS, are moving out into the big old world, and what better what to start than by taking on some debt! Nevertheless, if a 40-year-old who had just completed an undergrad degree walked in there, she’d be just as eligible for the $400 rebate.

Discrimination is not illegal per se. We discriminate all the time. I like alternative music but usually not country music.

The reason that some discrimination is illegal is a complicated question, and this is only a cursory description. First, generally speaking, the U.S. constitution says that the congress can only make laws that prohibit action by the federal government or the states. The exception is that congress can also make laws to govern interstate commerce. So, congress can only prohibit actions by private parties if those actions affect interstate commerce. The kinds of things that affect interstate commerce are things related to travel, employment, and other more obvious commercial ventures.

The constitution itself only applies to actions by the federal government and state governments. The principle that prohibits discrimination is “equal protection” which is embodied in the 5th (for federal) amendment and the 14th (states) amendment. The 1st amendment also prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion.

Because equal protection isn’t specifically defined, the Supreme Court over the years has tried to define what kinds of discrimination are barred by the constitution. They have started from one premise and added to it. That premise is that the government should be prohibited from making distinctions in laws that are completely irrational. Thus, the cases are about what differences in people or things affected are real differences and what are not.

At first, race was viewed as a real difference justifying different (bad) treatment. That was the “separate but equal” stuff. Then, thanks to some very talented lawyers and a lot of grass roots activism, the Court came to the realization that the nearly all differences between races were not “real” and were just an excuse for treating non-whites badly. So, the Court said they were going to look at every law that made a distinction on the basis of race and presume that the law was invalid unless the government could show that the law served a compelling interest and that it was as narrowly tailored as possible.

Over time, the Court has been asked to look at other groups and to decide how to scrutinize classifications based on membership in those groups. The level of scrutiny is directly related to whether we culturally view the differences of that group from the majority as “real.” So, racial classifications get strict scrutiny as do classifications based on religion. There are some “real” differences between men and women, so gender classifications get only “intermediate” scrutiny. The same is true for classifications based on immigration status. Everything else just has to be marginally rational.

To decide which groups get what kind of scrutiny, the Court looked at the groups and decided that there were some factors. Those groups must be discrete (able to be defined as different from the majority and limited in number) and insular (without a lot of movement in or out of the group generally because one is born with the characteristic) minorities (smaller than the group of nonmembers or lacking in political power if not numerically smaller).

This is also the basis of congress’ attempts to limit discrimination in the private sector. It started with race, sex, and religion, and has enacted other anti-discrimination laws as the majority have agreed that some distinctions aren’t rational and have a negative economic and political impact on a group. That’s where the age and disability discrimination laws come in.

States can outlaw whatever kind of discrimination they want as long as that does not violate their state constitution or the federal constitution. That’s why a lot of states have been trying to pass laws either to protect gays and lesbians from discrimination or to keep such protection from ever being enacted in the future. (The former are usually constitutional while the latter is usually not).

So, in the example here, the distinction between recent college grads and non-recent ones most likely isn’t illegal discrimination. There are rational distinctions that can be drawn between people based on whether they went to college and how recently they graduated. Are there exceptions? Sure. Do they matter? Not under the way these things have to be analyzed.

Finally, this is a sales tactic. Whose to say that the prices finally paid by everyone aren’t the same? The dealer probably jacks up the price of the cars bought by those eligible for the rebates to cover the cost of those rebates.

Simple. “Older people” is not necessarily synonymous with “not a recent graduate.”

Of course, there’s also the question of why discrimination is not immoral per se, but others have covered that topic quite well.

Basically, the “rebate” is a gimmick which anyone can negotiate, regardless of whether they’ve even attended college. Nothing worth getting worked up about, esp. since more insidious forms of discrimination abound.