So what? The specified country was Belarus.
*sigh
In the more general case, if they are on a plane to the US, they already have permission to be in the US.
(stowaways aside)
…so maybe six people on this messageboard disagree? What does that tell us?
Its not a matter of “what I want to do.”
Over the last 15 years society has evolved to the point where most of us personally curate our news and information. This is what Donald Trump sees on his twitter feed. He see’s people that agrees with him. People that he agrees with.
And to a degree this is something that nearly all of us do. I don’t watch Fox news. I don’t follow people I hate on twitter or facebook. My worldview is shaped by the people I do follow and the news that I do read.
What that means is that when AOC or Donald Trump says something, how people will receive that message will be filtered by whatever channels a person is following. What AOC says is filtered through Sean Hannity. So no: they “aren’t listening anyway.” You can moderate your tone: you can try to appeal to them, but that does two things: it weakens you message and your position, and the ‘gatekeepers’ won’t let your message get through to them anyway.
The best way to reach these people is by osmosis. So you don’t moderate your tone, moderate your message. You get your message out to the people within your circles of influence. Then you let those people dilute that message so that more people understand it, and come to embrace it. That is exactly what is happening in this thread.
In case you actually hadn’t noticed: there are people who have participated in this thread who have changed their minds.
You are complaining about a problem that you continue to contribute too.
Perhaps you should? I mean, isn’t this the definition of “living in a bubble”?
…my comment was specific to the assertions that there have been no “large appropriations” to “deal with the horrible conditions.” I’m not asserting that “actions won’t require money.” I’m stating that “large appropriations” are not a metric that shows us that anything has been done.
As for what the fix is?
You can’t fix anything unless you can acknowledge that there is something that needs to be fixed. So the first step needs to be to bring the subject into the spotlight, to challenge the administration’s propaganda campaign. To stop things getting even worse.
The Trump administration can’t be taken in good faith. So this is a battle that must be played out on multiple fronts. Lawsuits. Impeachment. Hearings. Taking to the streets. Quality investigative reporting. Are you looking for a simple fix for a complex problem? I’m afraid that I don’t have enough time in my day to even address that. I’ll do what I can from my little island on the other side of the world: and that is to call out obvious propaganda as propaganda.
…I do read and listen to people that I disagree with say. I just don’t follow them on social media. I don’t need my feed clogged with opinions that I consider to be racist, misogynistic, and hateful. I watch relevant snippets of Fox news when I need too. I consider Chris Wallace to be an exceptional journalist even though I disagree with his personal politics, and I don’t hesitate to watch his interviews when they pop up on youtube. But I don’t sit myself down and watch Fox news as part of my regular TV viewing.
I take significant action to “break out of my bubble” whilst doing my best to not hurt my mental health. My point isn’t that “I’m not in a bubble.” I fairly acknowledge that I am. My point is that we are all in a bubble, and its a bubble of our own creation. Understanding that is my point.
Sorry but your direct quote was “Money isn’t needed to fix the problem”
These issues HAVE been acknowledged. How can we “stop things from getting worse”?
How are lawsuits, impeachment, and hearings going to help people suffering right this very minute? How is the months-long impeachment process going to “stop things from getting worse”? How are years of hearings going to “stop things from getting worse”?
It seems like you have no ideas, actions, or plans that will fix the issue. You have “some things that might happen in some future, maybe”.
That’s a load of crap. What do you have right here and right now that you think we should start doing immediately to alleviate the problems that do not require money?
If you have nothing, than just say that - “I think conditions there are horrible, inhumane, and need to change, but I can’t think of anything that will fix the issues”
Then we can all just agree with you.
Well, you said you don’t watch Fox News, so maybe you should. It’s the epitome of conservative thought. Knowing that is a good thing. I mock them daily.
…sorry but I’ve clarified my direct quote. Is there anything about my clarification that you need clarification on?
No they haven’t. Read the fucking thread.
They aren’t.
Because impeachment is the legislative tool that congress has to levels charges against a government official. The process of bringing the administration to account has to start somewhere.
Holy fucking strawman batman. You didn’t ask for “an immediate fix.” I posted ideas, actions and plans to address the issue. But you want me to provide an immediate “fix” for a problem that at its heart is the belief in white supremacy?
You want an immediate fix? Fire Stephen Miller.
I suppose this explains why your debate style appears to be “arguing for the sake of arguing.” Perhaps you need to stop watching Fox News.
I have. I don’t see anyone saying there isn’t a problem. Can you point out any posts that say that?
Firing Stephen Miller will improve the conditions at these places? I don’t see how?
I don’t see how “Asking someone who is complaining about something to give solutions to a problem that are concrete and measurable instead of vague processes that take years to resolve” is “arguing for the sake of arguing”
I’ll make it easy for you: what do you think should be done in the next 7 days, 30 days, 6 months, 1 year to alleviate the suffering in the facilities? I’ll make you a nice table, just fill it in with your ideas:
[ul]
[li]7 days - [/li][li]30 days -[/li][li]6 months -[/li][li]1 year -[/li][/ul]
…people, including you, are failing to acknowledge the **scale **of the problem.
Then perhaps you need to do some more research on how we actually got to where we are.
Because the Trump administration are the only people with the power to resolve this in any measurable or concrete way. The only way for people outside of the administration to make change is to use the system to hold the administration to account.
I’m not your fucking monkey and I’m not going to be held to a higher standard than you expect of your elected officials. Why aren’t you holding congress to account? Why aren’t you demanding that they give you these answers, why aren’t you picking up the phone and demanding they meet your timelines?
The simple fix for a rational administration: re implement catch and release. Let them go. Close most of the camps and bring the remaining ones up to a defined, minimum standard and open them up to oversight. Done and dusted in 30 days. But this isn’t a rational administration. So what answer are you really after?
Are we? Am I? I don’t think so.
Sorry, according to the link in post #1 of this thread, doing this would still result in “concentration camps”
I’m after what your opinion is, that’s it. I’m for catch and release, no problems with that.
…what “you think” and what you express are two very different things.
And this is a prime example. If you were debating in good faith you never would have said such a ridiculous thing. I wasn’t setting a definition. I wasn’t even enumerating policy. I added a couple of qualifiers to an already simplified position.
You are arguing for the sake of arguing.
No you weren’t. I gave you my opinion: that wasn’t enough for you. You demanded an itemized timeline, step by step over the next year, detailing concrete and measurable ways I would “alleviate the suffering in the facilities.” You even “made me a nice table” to make it easier for me.
If you wanted my opinion you would have stopped when I gave it to you. You are arguing for the sake of arguing.
Catch and release is the answer. We have objective evidence that, by and large, it works. But it isn’t a solution we can use to “fix everything immediately” as you demand unless the people with the ability to implement that policy decide to do that.
And that’s where we are at right now. The only solution is through the courts, through raising public awareness, through pressuring those that are in power to make changes, to ensure the security of the next elections and to vote the fuckers out of office.
The administration are in court right now arguing that soap and toothpaste aren’t necessarily required in order for detention centers to be “safe and sanitary.” It isn’t because they don’t have the money to do this. Its because this is an entirely manufactured position. Instead of “catching and release” they started to detain before adequate infrastructure was built. That wasn’t an accident. That isn’t incompetence. This isn’t under-funding. Its by design.
And if you don’t understand that then you don’t understand the scale and the scope of the issues at play here.
…close the camps down.
Close those damn camps down, or the next term you hear will be “War Crimes Tribunal”.
Actually, airplane stowaways are sometimes put on the next plane going back to where they came from.
But hey, I’ve long since given up on you understanding nuance, context, or the concept of looking at cases individually and you’re resorting to sarcasm when someone doesn’t give you a neat, one-size-fits-all rule.
And nowhere near $5k a month is given or required. As you damn well know.
Malnourished kids wathching over other abused kids.
“A little boy…he had no diapers on, he should have had a diaper on, he was two years old. And when I asked why he didn’t have diapers on I was told that he didn’t need it. He immediately urinated, and he was in the care of another child.”
Not everyone who voted for Trump is a hard core MAGA douche. Some voted for him, ignorantly, for the laughs and the finger to the system. Those guys aren’t in love with Trump, and the only way this does not cost Trump votes is if the so-called administration can keep it under wraps. Pictures of it would look like pictures from, you know the term, concentration camps.
This will spill out into the open eventually. Either some activist within the system will leak pictures, or the system just completely breaks down and overwhelms the bureaucracy to the point where they have to decides who stays, who goes. They’ll just start releasing people into the open and from there, the narratives of what’s happening will become more and more frequent, probably with some visual evidence in the form of sick and emaciated, barely alive souls to support it. The Trumpets will still say “Well it’s their fault for coming here in the first place.” Maybe the center right is marginally more humanitarian.
*[19] On June 26, 1981, the Attorney General sent a memorandum with attached decision packets to the President of the United States. One of the packets was designated as the “Cuban/Haitian Problem”. Under that heading in the attached paper, Option 1 [“Status Quo”] was not recommended by any of the advisors, Option 2 [“Limited Interdiction plus Status Quo Non-detention”] was recommended only by the Department of Transportation and Frank Hodsol, and Option 3, [“Interdiction and Detention”] was recommended by the Department of State, Justice, Treasury, Labor and HHS. This option, which ultimately was the policy announced by the Reagan Administration was analyzed as follows:
“Detention could deter continuing illegal immigration reducing adverse community impact … But detention risks camp overflowing because of procedural delays… Detention could create an appearance of `concentration camps’ filled largely by blacks.”*
I think it is obvious, too, and that is the most concentration campy aspect of this whole situation. Border crossings are historically low. There isn’t an out-of-control situation that developed spontaneously into this mess. No, we have had a hateful demagogue going around telling people that Mexicans are Rapists, they’re all drug dealers, they’re contagious, they are murderers.
In response to- asking for asylum. Legally. They are judged to be ‘lying’, en masse and a priori, and locked up in shit conditions on that basis. Yeah, I think the whole thing is motivated by hate. It obviously isn’t a legitimate law enforcement operation that got out of hand- it is intended to inflict suffering.
Still not sure why it is legal.
PS. I live in an eternal time crunch. Can’t always respond quickly.