So let’s say that you’re right.
What’s the response? Because we are absolutely facing a massive humanitarian crisis, and people failing to see it as such are, strictly speaking, wrong and furthering the propaganda of the administration that is causing the crisis on purpose.
But propagandizing the other way by calling them concentration camps, even if effective and in service of a good cause, is still propaganda.
What would you have us call them?
Detention camps are fine. No need to whitewash and call them temporary or facilities though.
I’ll be going with the dozen or so historians I’ve cited throughout the thread and calling them concentration camps. As said in post 44, this is not what this thread is about, but if you insist on bringing that in here, please at least offer more than your personal opinion if you’re going to just contradict the experts.
The truth is that they are by definition concentration camps. If this truth disturbs you, it isn’t the truth that you should be questioning.
When did I say that it disturbs me?
If the Trump apologists get so upset about the term “concentration camps,” perhaps you should just start talking about how FDR ran concentration camps for Issei and Nissei and libtards still think FDR is the bee’s knees.
Yep, yep. It’s all about the money. Money will fix it. And those bad Dems are preventing Trump from getting enough money to help those poor kids.
Right.
U.S. House passes border aid bill, Trump vows veto
And anyway, it’s hard to provide luxuries like soap and toothpaste and clothing to children when the private contractors are only getting $750 Per child PER DAYto house and feed them. I mean, how can they make any profit on such a pittance from the taxpayer?
I’m sure if I took in two children to my house, I would need much more than that. I mean, two kids for 6 months at 150/day each… That would only be $270,000. I don’t know how I could provide luxuries like soap on such a pittance.
This, from CNN:
I honestly didn’t think this would pass. Seems I’m not the only one who thinks it’s important. I have some apologies to the Dems in the House (and some… a very few … Pubs too). I don’t know if Trump will veto this…he probably will…but it shows that someone is actually trying to fix the issue. In the face of their own progressive opposition, near universal Republican opposition as well as that idiot in the White House threatening to veto it they at least are trying to help, so my hat is off to them. Good job guys!
I’m not really disagreeing with you, BPC.
I guess what was on my mind when I wrote that was an article or two yesterday that discussed how some of the progressives were threatening to not support border funding because they wanted to make a statement about the treatment of migrants. In reality, they might have actually made the situation for migrants even worse than they already were, and they would have run the risk of using border agents as political footballs; they’re still civil servants even if we don’t like how their bureaucracy’s being administered. I think it was bullshit when Republicans besmirched FBI’s rank and file and I’d file the same protest if Dems were to start going down that path as well. Plus it’s just not good governance, which is what Democrats should really be focused on doing.
And this is more proof that Speaker Pelosi knows what she’s doing and progressives who thirst to challenge her just need to shut the hel up and take some notes. Pelosi knows that it’s more important to be seen as actually trying to make government function in the face of a highly dysfunctional senate and even more dysfunctional president. It may not excite the twittersphere, but who seriously gives a shit? That’s not how we should run a country.
And if the president vetoes the bill (which she probably considers a 50/50 chance at this point) then he’ll fall into yet another Nancy Pelosi trap. If he throws a tantrum to excite his base, he will only be getting self-owned again, which is why Pelosi wanted to pass any version of this legislation. Make Trump send bipartisan legislation back to the Senate. Just like he did with his shut down.
I would definitely vote for Pelosi after this. I never really liked her before, but I have to say I’ve become more of a fan in the last year. I think she might be the best politician in the country, bar none, at this point.
As to Trump vetoing this, I think if he does that he completely and categorically owns this cluster fuck. Even if he doesn’t, he still gets the lions share, but if he vetoes the effort to try and mitigate some of the damage then both he and the Republicans own whatever happens or comes out on this. From everything I’ve read, it’s very bad already, and getting worse, and mitigation is vital to try and fill the gaps and plug the holes. Trump still seems fixated on just stopping people at the border, but you have to consider what to do with them when you do that.
Why would all this be news to you? This has been obvious for months, if not years. This is part of the Trump administration’s policy – harming children isn’t a bug, but a feature. They want this to happen.
Ok, I haven’t slogged through all 400+ replies, so forgive me if I repeat something that’s been said but here is my two cents:
I DON’T CARE IF THEY CROSSED ILLEGALLY.
I don’t. Not one little bit. Even keeping the most hardened criminals in these conditions would be MORALLY WRONG.
And these are not hardened criminals, these are people fleeing violence and poverty that we, as a nation, had a hand in creating!
And, there is NO justification for keeping children in a concentration camp. Zero. None.
Every single person who believes otherwise deserves to die in a fire.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Who said it was news to me?? Where do you see that I was surprised to learn all of this? I freaking LIVE here. My family made the crossing illegally to the US when I was a baby. Much of my family still lives across the border in Sonora. Any surprise you think I have over any of this is purely in your own mind.
What I DIDN’T know and AM surprised by is that the Dems managed to approve that aid package for $4 billion and change. I didn’t think this had any chance of happening. So, if you want to say ‘why is this news to you?’, then that’s fair…I was a bit stunned when I saw it on CNN this morning, having expected it to fail because folks are so caught up in the political fight (as, to me, demonstrated perfectly in this thread) that no one is thinking of mitigation efforts to try and patch the issues and problems. Obviously, I was wrong about that and am very glad to see that I was wrong.
It seems to be news to you that this is what the Trump administration wanted, and that the Trump administration deserves the blame for it. If not, then good for you.
I must admit, I was pleasantly surprised as well. I still contend that more money will not do much good, as most of it seems to be going into the hands of for-profit companies.
But still - it’s good news for the reasons you point out.
Again, that lawyer was defending an OBAMA-era “concentration camp” that had failed to provide soap and toothpaste. He’s the one that was running those unsanitary camps, not President Trump. Do you still believe it was “a deliberate policy”?
Not sure how I could have put the blame more firmly on Trump than I have, so, again, that seems to be in your head. I disagree with your assessment that all of this was planned and is the outcome Trump et al want or wanted. To me, this is again assuming Trump is playing (evil) 3D chess or something, where I think stupidity and incompetence are more realistic reasons for the cluster fuck than design and intention. The conditions on the border are a lot more brutal than I think folks who don’t live here realize. It can be literally freezing at night and scorching during the day. There is almost no humidity in many parts, so dehydration is a deadly issue. There are all sorts of environmental conditions here that make it difficult to house and hold lots of people. I don’t think you could balance trying to be cruel but not have thousands dying. Instead, my thought is that they didn’t think…Trump just said to do it without considering the ramifications and hasn’t taken his head out of his ass to actually look at the consequences or the situation. Don’t worry him with the small shit, he’s a big picture man! :rolleyes: