Like the title says,
However on another topic, does thujone have any known connections to schizophrenia other than treating it?
Thanks
Here’s a http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/HS_marijuana_depression021122.html]link for those who want to read about what the OP is referring to.
Ah that links no good.
No one has seriously contended that marijuana causes schizophrenia. All that’s been seen is a high correlation between marijuana use and schizophrenia, which could be explained by many schizophrenics attempting to self-medicate.
Here’s the fixed [urlhttp://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/HS_marijuana_depression021122.html]link.
Well there’s cannabis psychosis, which has similar symptoms.
Though not an open advocate of legalization of Marijuana -my classes deal with issues such as discussed in the OP.
I’ll provide what I know about the correlation between marijuana and schizophrenia from a psychologists point of view. I teach psych 101, Abnormal and psych stats - this semester at least - and one of the vignettes I use for tests involves a man who was partying with his friends at college. He started smoking marijuana when he was 18 and now at 23 he was used to the affects of the drug. One day after smoking some pot with friends he stood up from his chair on the front porch, and walked home. Well his friends thought he walked home, but in fact he walked up onto the highway and started walking north. Not necessarily knowing where he was going. He was eventually picked up by the highway patrol 10 miles outside of town… Not remembering his name, or any connections to anything normal in his life, including his girl friend etc…etc… He experienced what is called a schizophrenia fugue. After taking medication prescribed by the psychiatrist the boy was able to tell the sequence of events of what led up to the fugue. And the Marijuana was the trigger…
Basically, marijuana activates synapse in your brain that can induce what some have called Spherical thinking or lucid memory recognition. People who have diagnosed schizophrenia, often experience auditory and visual hallucinations, but symptoms do not have to be that severe. Sometimes, symptoms can be as slight as a long stare, or repeat movements or thoughts.
As a standard disclaimer, I mention at the beginning of Abnormal psych class that it is not uncommon for students to feel like they have symptoms of a certain illness. But often times, very close to 10 out of 10 times, it is just because they are studying what the symptoms are, and their brain is processing that as an actual emotion.
Back to the OP. Marijuana does not have the same effect on everyone. But ask some people who smoked heavily in highschool and college but stopped after college. The a year or so later got together with buddies, and the effects can sometimes change. I for one smoked with a friend after having quit a while ago and I felt very funny, paranoid/ with a splash of insecurity. Not at all the effect I had in college.
But as for causing schizophrenia - It can not in my opinion be linked directly. but it can be correlated to inducing in some people an effect that can look like schizophrenia. But people who have diagnosed schizophrenia, will develope it in a variety of ways.
A chilling statistic is that for the global population schizophrenia runs in thirds. A third of the population will never experiene it. A third of the population will have one episode, and a third of the population will have more than one episode. And need medication for the latter.
Those with undiagnosed schizophrenia can have a trigger from smoking pot. This does not dissued millions of people from participating every year in the occasional joint, or water pipe indulgence…
Ok so what is the trigger in Marijuana that tips off schizophrenia?
I have head THC mentioned is that a possible trigger?
I think Plosphr explained it. Marijuana triggers the symopsis in the brain. Schitzophrenia is a malfunction of the synopsis. In very humble and un-educated opinion, I think some people are predisposed to schitzophrenia already but taking a drug (not necessarily only marijuana) can short circuit the stoppers…does that make more sense?
And yes, I think people with schitzophrenia and various other mental illnesses are very commonly undiagnosed but self-medicating through alcohol and drugs. So it isn’t necessarily that the marijuana “caused” it. It might have already been there but just eventually manifested during or after the drug use.
I think what vance is asking about is the exact drug. Here is a link that shows the relationship between the chemical components of tobacco and marijuana. For the most part, everything is comparable except for two major ingredients: Pot has cannabinoids, tobacco has nicotine.
So, from that, if tobacco hasn’t been shown to induce/help/whatever schizophrenia, then one could assume that it has something to do with the cannabinoids. There are 3 main types of cannabinoids in pot: Cannbidiol, D9 THC and Cannabinol. All 3 affect you, and it is the relationship between the 3 that allows for different ‘highs’. In Sativa plants, there is a much higher portion of THC than the other two types. This provides a ‘head’ high, one that is clearer and makes you feel more active. In Indica plants (most common ditch weed is indica), the THC has broken down into the lesser two cannabinoids and produces a more ‘body’ high. Simply put- Sativa makes you want to go outside and throw a frisbee, indica makes you want to grab a bag of Doritos and sink into a couch and watch TV. Different combinations provide different results.
Where am I going with this?
I read somewhere that the more effective medicinal marijuana is the common indica ditch weed. This suggests that the lesser cannabinoids are more effective towards medicinal uses.
So…wild ass guess…What if the sativa types (which give the head high) are more condusive to affecting schizophrenia?
-Tcat
I guess it’s kind of like an acid flashback. It’s not that there’s something in the LSD that “causes” flashbacks. If you’re in a similar situation to one where you were on acid, you can revert back to the drug-induced state for a period of time. For example, let’s say the only time you were ever in a teepee you were tripping. The next time you’re in a teepee, you could feel like you’re tripping because in all of the memories you had formed of teepees you were tripping.
Ok - I read the attached article, and I really, really have to point out - Correlation does not equal causation, for the love of Pete.
I haven’t read the actual studies; however, I’m willing to bet that the researchers wern’t able to control for all the confounding factors. Perhaps it’s the chips and popcorn that are consumed after smoking pot that is the root if the increase.
The conclusions that the researchers are drawing seem shakey at best.
If a person is predisposed to a psychotic disorder should they smoke pot? Probably not.
Will an otherwise healthy person who smokes pot develop a psychotic disorder? Probably not.
Can any solid causal conclusions be drawn from the studies, as they are presented in the attached article? Not a freekin’ chance.
Now, it’s quite possible that an uninformed reporter has been overstating results, or misinterpreting what researchers have said.
Ok - that being said. Assuming (and it’s a big assumption), that in those individuals predisposed to psychotic disorders pot plays a role in it’s development, I would assume it would be the THC that would be the active ingredient, so to speak.
But there is a peculiar relationship between cigarette tobacco/nicotine, and schizophrenia:
Nicotine and Schizophrenia (NARSAD)
Over at the UC Davis website , they implicate nicotine as a Monoamine oxidase B inhibitor, and tie that to mood improvements among schizophrenics.
To mangle a few metaphors, the horse and cart arrangement with respect to marijuana and schizophrenia is even murkier:
He He. CouchLoK.
Squink, I don’t see anything in your last post that can’t be explained as an attempt at self-medication.
Because there is no correlational relationship that says marijuana causes schizophrenia. Can it trigger a schizophrenia episode in someone who already has the disorder, yes. Trust me all you devout worshipers of the pipe weed, you will not get schizophrenia from it. But for those who have a predisposition to psychotic behaviour, or have a relative with diagnosed schizophrenia, I would take heed and not smoke it. Reference my post above.
yme, CouchLoK? Whazzat?
snort Carpe Couchem Dude! giggle
Where are those damned chips?
Interesting stuff Squink, I never heard of that. Thanks!
-Tcat
I agree. Far from refuting that hypothesis, it tends to supply a scientific basis for the efficacy of self-medication.
mmmm… cannabinoids…
Marijauna doesn’t cause schizophrenia. I have been using Marijuana regularly for four years and I have not had a schizophrantic episode. Right? Right. But I have been using marijuana for five years. Oh yeah, five years is how long I have been using. Anybody have any potato chips? I have some in the cabinet. Oh yeah! Nevermind.