I don’t choose to be around negative energy myself unless there is a specific reason for it. Forgiveness is a tool to cleanse yourself of negative thoughts and energy. You are not obligated to believe anyone at anytime, nor would you be obligated to have dealings with anyone in particular. You are obligated (spiritually) to treat everyone kindly, helping as much as you can. The importance of spiritual tools can only be ascertained by using them.
I agree with this without completely. I hope someday to wield this particular tool better.
The “without” in the above sentence was inserted by the vast right wing conspiracy against me. Please disregard it.
It is a delicate balance sometimes. To help but still respect their own free will and spiritual path. We have to be careful not to impose our own spiritual view onto others too much, and yet not be fearful of acting on our beliefs.
I agree that a lot of forgiveness is about cleansing oneself {especially when you’re not good at it} but I maintain that ultimately forgiveness is an act shared by two or more people. How can it be otherwise if we are spiritualy one? Even if the offender won’t acknowledge the offense an act of true forgiveness, {not just saying it while harboring ill will} will move them in some way. As you say, treating them with kindness and consideration, even warmth, after an offense will begin to change things. If they are unrepentant of their greed or dishonesty, then we are not required to trust them as before. Letting them face the consequences of their actions can be a form of kindness. We must look into our own hearts to decide what our motives are.
Whenever possible confront the offender and tell of the offense. Occasionly we will discover they are innocent and we only percieved an offense. In that case we are the ones in need of forgiveness. Helping, doesn’t mean rescuing people from the consequences of their own actions. I think the more we practice forgiveness the more intuitive we will be about others and we will learn to trust that intuition.
Over time I have discovered we are all in need of forgiveness. It the nature of our humanity that we are less than perfect. Occasionly we are all short tempered, tempted to be less than honest,selfish,etc. etc. Why judge others harshly about the human failings we all have. Do we condem them for haveing different timeing? As we forgive ourselves, {rather than deny or justify} it becomes easier to forgive others. We needn’t be ashamed of our humanity or condem others for theirs.
Somewhat related, how does forgiveness relate to protecting others. Are we morally obligated to protect others from serious offenders. Do we forgive murders and child molestors so that they may committ the offense again?
Perhaps a subject for a new thread?Perhaps the greatest challenge we have is forgiving ourselves.
When we make mistakes, sometimes mistakes that harm others. We must learn to recognize our actions as mistakes and forgive ourselves. We need this forgiveness as much as anyone. If you are harboring guilt, then you need to forgive yourself, now, so you can get on with your life. There are two kinds of guilt – natural guilt, and chronic guilt. Natural guilt comes to you immediately when you make a mistake, telling you not to do that again. Chronic guilt lingers on and on. It should be forgiven by you as sincere and honest as your forgive others.
Thats always been my impression, that forgiveness was letting go of a desire to get even or get revenge. However, I do not see how you can do that and not be opposed to punishment. Many of the people who I have seen in life who have been considered beacons of forgiveness were victims of some evil (nazism, other dictators, criminals) and even though they forgave they still wanted the person who did it captured and punished.
So I guess to most people forgiveness is more of a desire to not let the feelings of hate and anger take over your life and ruin you, not a desire to let the other person off the hook.
If there are no consequences to your actions then you don’t learn much. I’ve seen children who’s families offer little or no consequences for awful behavior. These kids continue to misbehave and often this extends far into thier adult life with Mom and Dad still bailing them out and other poeple just being considered jerks for not kindly overlooking their little mistakes.
It’s a judgement call I guess. In some cases you might be really helping to forgive a debt or be very patient and llenient with the offender. In some cases it would be a great disservice to the offender to simply let him off the hook.
Christ said “neither do i condem you, {forgiveness} go your way, and SIN NO MORE”
I think it’s pretty close to this, though I don’t practice it very well. One of the best descriptions of forgiveness I’ve read comes from Anne Lamott’s new book, Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith, talking about her relationship with here mom. This also addresses the difference between forgiveness and forgetting:
I couldn’t pretend she hadn’t done extensive damage - that’s called denial. But I wanted to dance anyway, even with a limp. I know forgiveness is a component of freedom, yet I couldn’t, even after she died, grant her amnesty. Forgiveness means it finally becomes unimportant that you hit back. You’re done. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you want to have lunch with the person.
Christian ideals aside, letting it go or not keeping a grudge is ultimately the goal. I find that a person either has the capacity to do so or a person does not. It’s sometimes easier to let it go after a sincere appology is offered by the offending party. I’ve known people who just won’t let it go despite the most sincerest of appologies are offered and seemingly accepted.
A wrong done is a wrong done. Sometimes forgiveness is not the right course of action. Sometimes acknowledging the appology but not offering forgiveness is the more important lesson in the offender’s life. Not every wrong is deserving of forginess and repeat/serious transgressions need to sometimes remain unforgiven.
But the hurt party… they need to be able to move on and internally make peace with themselves. That is important and that much I do agree with.
QuickSilver, I like what you said here:
You are absolutely correct: it is not necessary to forgive someone in order to move on and make peace within oneself. For example, I spent the first couple of years after my second divorce actively hating my ex-wife because of the way she lied to me and screwed around on me with a guy I thought was one of my best friends. I moved on from there when I finally realized that she wasn’t worth wasting any more time over. But I have never forgiven her and I never will. I still occasionally think of her and fervently wish that she is currently in a world of shit, then I forget about her again.
In fact, I question the entire idea that forgiving someone for wronging you is necessary. I don’t think it is, nor do I even think it is desirable or beneficial.
It is hard to forgive certain offenses. Especially when no apology or true remorse is present. I think it is absolutely nessecary to forgive to really move on. I may not think about a certain offense much but if it revives old feelings of anger and resentment whenever I do, or if I wish harm on someone else, then I feel I haven’t actually moved on. It isn’t easy and probably not the norm, but I think it’s essential.
Repeat offendors is a problem because I think we have a moral obligation to protect society. Child molestors, rapist, people who sell drugs to children, and maybe a few others. It seems to me we betray the public when we give them the opportunity to hurt others again after a repeat offense. No system of justice is perfect. No matter what we choose the innocent will suffer. It’s an unfortunate part of humanity.