A question about Christian forgiveness

Great Debates
1

“Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

The implication is, our being forgiven is contingent upon our forgiving others.

I wonder if Peter’s brother ASKED for forgiveness up to 440 times, or merely trespassed against Peter 440 times, without asking to be forgiven?

Personally, I hate conflict and am the most forgiving person in the world IF the party who trespassed against me asks for forgiveness. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever held a grudge against anyone who tried to make it up to me. The slightest effort toward reconciliation always delights me, and my anger dries up immediately.

But it’s different when forgiveness isn’t asked for, or if the party doesn’t feel a trespass was committed. There is at least one situation in my life where I feel I’ve been terribly injured, and the injuring party isn’t the least bit sorry. Forgiveness was never asked for nor given.

So how do I forgive in this case? I don’t feel okay about the situation; I feel terribly wronged. The situation happened about 15 years ago, and it’s one of the defining moments of my life. The other person feels he did no wrong; there can be no discussion of the situation because he won’t hear it discussed. The matter is supposedly closed, and we’ve gotten on with our lives, except: I have this grudge hanging over me, unforgiven. I don’t know how to get rid of it. Conversation is not possible.

All I know to do is to pray for this person, to pray for the best possible things to happen to him, but I know I’m faking it. Really, I want coals of fire heaped on his head.

Assuming I can never get right with this person – and I believe this is a fact – how do I get right with God regarding the matter of the unforgiven trespass? How do I let it go, how do I come to truly forgive it in my heart?

Non-Christians, you are welcome in this discussion (if a discussion ensues) but I’m really seeking opinions from Christians here.

2

:smack: make that 490 times, of course. I take the “seven times seventy” business to mean, really, an infinite number of times, much like the rabbits in Watership Down could count to four, all numbers greater than four being “hrair,” or “thousand.” Surely counting the number of transgressions up to 490 is not consistent with the spirit of Christ.

3

You absolutely must pray that God will help you to forgive–truly and sincerely forgive. It isn’t natural to want to forgive under the circumstances you describe–it’s hard enough when they ask for forgiveness, after all! In a situation such as this, then, we must beseech Him to give us the heart and mind of our Savior, to enable us to overcome the natural desire to “get even” and hold grudges. God didn’t want us to forgive only so that the other person could feel absolved–it is good for us, too, both mentally and physically, to be free of the damaging emotions caused by holding grudges. And realize, too, what our own sins have caused–the death of our Savior. And yet God has mercy on us every day of our lives when we sin, though we have done nothing to merit it. This is why He requires that we, too, be forgiving.

It goes against our grain, though, at times. That is why we ask for divine help–to do what is unnatural and difficult to us–forgive without reservation.

I’ll remember you in my prayers tonight.

4

Absolutely. I believe this is really the point … holding a grudge is pure poison. I’ve been poisoning myself for many years.

Thank you for your prayers.

5

Forgiveness can be a very hard thing to do, particularly when the transgression is severe. The cite you gave us** (Matt 18:21-22) didn’t say, as you noted, that Peter’s transgressors asked for forgiveness. (Which were probably hypothetical anyway) That’s probably not an oversight. A gripping example of forgiveness is in the last hours of Christ’s life, when he asked that the people who were murdering him (in a most heinous way) to be forgiven. (Luke 23:34)**

A grudge is too heavy a load for anyone to carry. You’ve suffered this for years now, and the person who wronged you is not suffering. (In large part because he/she doesn’t believe he was wrong.) Forgive for you. The bible says you should not let the sun set in a provoked state. (Eph 4:26) You’ve let 15 years of sunsets go by. It is time to make peace. (with yourself)

There is direction from God that requires you to forgive from the heart.** (Matt 18:23-35)** Have you wronged someone? The fact is that we have all hurt someone in our lives. If God counted our shortcomings none of us could stand. (PS 130:3,4) And what did Jesus say in at the sermon on the mount?; “Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.” (Matt 5:7) And Paul wrote, “12 Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. 13 Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as God freely forgave YOU, so do YOU also.” (Col 3:12,13)

For your own peace of mind and health, it’s time to let this go and make peace in your heart.

6

…and I wish you the best in that endeavor…

I’ve walked many a mile in those shoes…

7

Great, so how? I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. However I’d still like to kill the person in question. HOW do I move past it? I ask God to change my heart but it hasn’t happened yet. It’s not so much a matter of letting go, but of being released from it. (But likely my own crummy black heart is what keeps me bound to it.)

Is it at least settled, here, that forgiveness is required REGARDLESS of whether it’s asked for? That’s the more difficult conclusion, so I have to assume it’s correct.

8

Yes, forgiveness is required regardless of whether it’s asked for. Most of the really awful crimes, after all, have been committed by people who weren’t in the least sorry, or who never asked forgiveness. Or else they didn’t think they’d done wrong in the first place, or wouldn’t admit it even if they did…

Anyway, you know you have to do it. So start by praying for the change of heart you need. It’s not likely that you’ll be able to just talk yourself into forgiving this person, after all; you stand in need of help. Ask for it, and try to be willing to change. And then be patient, I suppose; this sort of thing doesn’t always happen overnight.

9

Forgiveness, as commonly conceived, is a highly overrated virtue. It’s a blank check to predators and parasites.

Fortunately, Biblical forgiveness is something else. It’s basically emotional disentangling that releases you from grudges & having to seek vengance. It does not mean however that you cannot call the offender to account for the offense, especially if it’s an offense that goes beyond what happened to you. To use a rather heinous example, a child molester is unlikely to have just victimized one person. So a survivor may forgive them but still expose them & press charges.

The prayer “forgive us as we forgive” and Jesus’s corresponding “threat” about needing to forgive in order to be forgiven makes more sense if we substitute the word “disentangle”, which is more what the Greek actually means.

Jesus’s 70x7 comment reminds me of the Daniel 9 prophecy that from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the completion of sin & the fulfillment of Prophecy & coming of Prince Messiah will be “Seventy sevens” (490 yrs.) I think He’s saying “Keep releasing till you actually do release that person/yourself from the grudge & till you receive the Grace of Messiah” or maybe more simply “Till I come back” G

10

It’s always been my experience that forgiveness heals the forgiver.

11

And mine, too, Lib.

Try it this way: John walks into a room and sees Mark doing something which angers him greatly. He points his finger angrily at Mark and begins to berate him. But John’s blood pressure is so high from his irateness that he suddenly has a stroke, and is frozen into that position.

Freeze frame.

Now, the paramedics come to the scene. Should their initial step be to:

  1. Stop Mark from doing what he was doing that angered John?
  2. Arrest Mark for his offense against John (whatever it may have been)?
  3. Treat John for the effects of the stroke?

Now transfer that concept from the medical realm to the spiritual.

12

This will be probably be a futile mental exercise for discussion but Im in the camp that say’s you can’t forgive someone who doesn’t want to be forgiven. Forgiveness is a gift, one that can be refused, rejected, or undone.

I think people confuse forgiveness with the absence of ill will. You can still love someone and not forgive them… I think it is an important distinction to make that forgiveness requires the consent/interaction of both parties.

I also disagree with the premise that people do not naturally have it in them to forgive. IMO, people don’t naturally have it in them to ASK for forgiveness. I find it very easy to forgive someone who asks for it sincerely. But to counter my own argument, I also find it easy to ask for it because I know the results are worth the effort.

I consider the two-way interaction of forgiveness one of the pillars of good citizenship. It requires that you empathize with the feelings of other people and have the compassion to reach out to someone who has stumbled on life’s road.

13

I can understand that POV. However the OP asked for Christians views particularly (while not excluding non-Christian PsOV) and while your views are quite rational they are not consistent with the bible or the principles of forgiveness articulated/practiced by Christ.

14

No joke: I dreamed about the person last night; he was dead, and I felt no anger anymore. It was very peaceful. I attended the funeral, comforted the family, and felt completely released from all the hurt and anger. Now, if only I can be granted that state of mind while we both still live.

Can you elaborate on this act of releasing, the one that you may have to perform 7x70 times or indefinitely, until you really mean it? To say “I release you” feels like just pretending to me. I don’t mean it, and I know that I don’t mean it. It’s almost like a lie; it feels actually wrong because I know how untrue it is. So what is this act of releasing, unentangling, that I have to perform? Is there really an element of virtuous pretending – “wish it” till it comes true – “Assume a virtue if you have it not / That monster, custom, who all sense doth eat, / Of habits devil, is angel yet in this”?

Of course one prays for the right feelings. But what to do in the meantime, before the right feelings are granted, is my concern.

15

The virtuous pretending concept (I like that term) is close to what I have in mind. Until you can actually forgive/release/disentangle, keep wishing/asking/praying for God’s Grace that you can do it & act accordingly. Do you have any dealings with the person now so that your forgiveness will actually affect him or is this forgiveness mainly to release you?

One thing I’ll definitely say- don’t fall into the idea that this is all a transaction- that God’s forgiveness for you demands your forgiveness of the offender. That’s not what Christ is saying- He is saying (IMO) that your ability to receive His releasing is related to your ability to release others. Your inability to release offenses does affect your ability to receive release, not God’s ability to release you.

Does this make any sense because I almost feel I’m talking myself in circles L

16

Well, hmmm… I’m certainly not the most Biblically versed Christian. I’ve always felt “literal interpretation” was the ultimate oxymoron so I took the message of Jesus to be a simple one: love they neighbor.

But for the sake of argument, I’m not aware of a situation in the Bible where Christ bestowed forgiveness that was not asked for. Depending on which Bible you quote (and which gospel) Jesus granted salvation only to the repentant sinner on the cross, not the blasphemous one. Salvation (forgiveness of sin) requires a person to repent (ask for forgiveness).

Maybe all those Sunday School sessions were for not, but that’s how I remember things.

17

That’s also my take on it, Friar Ted. God’s forgiving is not contingent on our forgiving; rather, our forgiving should be modelled on His forgiving. If we hold a grudge, it may block His forgiving.

18

masonite,

I know what I want to say here, and I’ll try not to bobble it too much.

This is not about how you feel. This is, like most of what Jesus told us, about what you do. You don’t have to feel one way or the other about that person. What you do have to do is obey the command to forgive. Pray for the one who hurt you, as I know you have been. Ask God to bless him. Any time the thought of him comes up, give that thought over to the Lord and ask for God’s blessings and guidance for his life.

And at the same time, ask God to help you give up this burden you’ve been carrying. Ask Him for healing of the hurt or anger that still exists in your heart. You don’t need to pretend to do anything, just do what you’ve been commanded to do. How you feel about it is not the indicator of what you’ve done.

This is what I did about my ex-husband, and in time I didn’t have to carry him around with me anymore. Jesus didn’t tell us to feel nice about everybody, He told us to love them. This says to me that the action is more essential than the feeling, and in fact, that the feeling results from the obedient action.

Oh, and I don’t remember anything about the Roman soldiers asking for forgiveness, but it was given. (That’s my answer to the question that Magiver raised.) :slight_smile:

On looking at it again, that first paragraph sounds kind of hard, but I really don’t mean it that way. I just mean that feelings are not the best indicator of where things stand between you and God.

19

masonite, have you considered talking to a priest/padre/pastor about this situation? a one-on-one conversation may be more helpful for you. For example, you’ve not given any details about the situation and your relationship with the individual. Fair enough, it’s a public message board, and you may not wish to reveal that much. But in a one-to-one conversation, you may find that you can open up more about the situation, which in turn can help, and the person you’re talking to may be able to give more help than anonymous posters can.

Just a thought. best wishes. :slight_smile:

20

Holding a grudge is a wearisome thing. It hurts. It blocks up so much that might be. And the saddest of all things, is we convince ourselves that the person against whom we hold this grudge is somehow responsible for it, as well as the original act for which we began holding the grudge.

They might be responsible for the act. They might be unwilling, or unable to participate in forgiveness. But holding a grudge is our own choice.

Go to your friend. Tell him this:

“Friend, I have set my heart against you, for many years. I have hardened my heart, and bore ill will against you even when our friendship had withered. I am sorry. I ask that you forgive me for that hateful feeling.”

If he will not forgive you, tell him that you are sorry, even so, and that you will try to live on from that moment without any rancor between you.

Tris