I am placing this in GD in the hopes that some opposing viewpoints may be presented. Perhaps it will be moved to IMHO…as the moderators see fit.
There is a woman a know who has done some horrible things at times in her life. These things resulted in pain for many and ultimately the splitting of her family.
Now approximately 20 years have gone by and she wants to have contact with some of her estranged relatives. Here is where my question on forgiveness come in. Please bear in mind this is happening in a Christian environment, and the people involved, while flawed, WANT forgiveness and healing to take place.
The lady in question has asked forgiveness of God. She feels her account with Him is settled (on this issue) and she feels that since that is taken care of and 20 years have passed, she does not need to acknowledge what she did in the past, much less ask forgiveness of those she hurt. She just wants to be able to visit them on occassion and have all thigns be hunky dory when she does.
I am among those she has hurt. While I have forgiven her as much as my heart can, I feel the missing piece of the puzzle is her acknowledging how she hurt us, and telling us she is sorry for what she did.
But, if she has asked God for forgiveness, and I believe she has received it from Him, what right do I have to require her apology to me? And conversely, what obligation does she have to offer an apology to those she hurt if she has asked for and received grace from God?
I welcome all opinions and points of view, but I obviously would also like scriptural or biblical references when appropriate.
Part of the Sermon on the Mount is applicable here. Matthew 5: 23,24.
This seems to imply that before one can receive God’s forgiveness, they first have to at least try to ‘make things right’ with the wronged Human party. It doesn’t say anything about whether the other person actually forgives or not, but it does indicate strongly that the effort needs to be made.
It’s very easy to get judgemental and self righteous when applying Biblical principles to other people. This, too, is damaging. If the person who wronged you a score of years ago is unable to face the past in that way, can you find it in yourself to forgive and forget and build new from the now?
While one should probably be cautious in future dealings with a person known for certain behaviors, holding a grudge rarely does anyone any good.
I’m having a difficult time understanding how the lady in question could have communicated her status to you and the others: “I asked God’s forgiveness and he gave it, but I refuse to ask you for forgiveness.” I’d consider that an isult.
I have more contact with her than the rest of the family. I assuming (dangerous I know) that part of her relationship with God over the years has involved her asking forgiveness. Maybe not. But I don’t really want to get bogged down in that. I am interested in opinions about should she ask forgiveness and acknowledge what she did to our family before we just start acting as if every thing is ok.
Say I go out and rob you. I get arrested, serve my time, and get released from jail - my debt to society paid. Do I still have to return your money?
Of course I do. One does not cancel the other.
Think of it this way: you have two court systems, Criminal and Civil. Even after someone is convicted (or not) in the former, you can still sue them in the latter. In this woman’s case, God is the Criminal court, and even though she may have settled matters there, your family’s civil case is still pending.
As a non-Christian, I actually felt my blood pressure peak when I read this. **You, and everyone else involved, have every right in the world to expect an apology from her. **If she has sincerely put her life on a better path, a heartfelt apology would be naturally forthcoming, without any prompting from anyone else. If you were in her place, wouldn’t you apologize to the people you had wronged? Wouldn’t it be the “Christian” thing to do?
It occurs to me that she may very well believe she has asked and received God’s forgiveness – it’s certainly not my job to judge what He does and when – but she’s missing a point about forgiveness as He’s traditionally defined it: contrition and repentance.
Maybe she told Him she’s sorry and won’t do it again. But a part of gaining forgiveness is dealing with the consequences of your action, and healing wounds that you may have caused. If she’s truly sorry for having “done horrible things and split the family,” then that means she regrets what she did. And therefore should be trying to fix it. And at a bare minimum be asking forgiveness of those she hurt. No Clue Boy’s quote from Jesus is very much apposite: she’s “offered her sacrifice at the altar” – talked to God about His forgiveness – before dealing with “her neighbors” – you and the rest of the family.
Saying “I’m sorry” is easy. Meaning it, and showing you do, is a harder row to hoe.
I think if she truely had made her peace with God, she would have no problem making her peace with her family, being that her family is part of God. If she has not received total absolution, then God has not forgiven her, for she has not forgiven herself, and clearly still holds guilt within her heart about these matters. I personally don’t think that saying out of one side of your mouth “God I’m sorry” and from the other side “God here, I forgive you.” is really getting God’s forgiveness. I fervently believe that God wants what we want, and if she truely wanted forgiveness, then she would set in motion the actions to receive it, something she seems unwilling to do.
I don’t think “God’s forgiven me, so I have nothing to answer for.”, is genuine. However, I don’t know what the situation is, and I don’t know what she feels about why she won’t ask for forgiveness. Maybe these behaviors were brought about by something she couldn’t forgive the family for, and she doesn’t want to apologize out of fear she won’t get her grievances redressed. Who knows?
I don’t think Grace as is hard a subject to understand as we like to pretend it is. It’s very simple, one is gracious or one isn’t, the tone of one’s behavior shows whether or not they are being graceful.
Also, I would be careful about pretending to yourself, her and others that you forgive her if you really don’t, just because you think you are obliged to.
I think if she had truly humbled herself, asking God for forgiveness, she would feel truly sorry of the things she done in the past, and would want to talk them out with you. Religious twelve step programs insist one must ask forgiveness of everyone they wronged. I would be careful in dealing with her.
Whether or not she has God’s forgiveness is a matter between her and God. Just because God forgives someone doesn’t mean you automatically have to as well. The issue here isn’t how to handle the situation as a good christian; it’s how to handle the situation as a human being. Feel free to tell her how you feel on the matter. I think that you would be perfectly within your rights to say to her something to the effect of: “You really hurt me, and I don’t feel that I can truly forgive you until you acknowledge that.”. If she doesn’t acknowlege what she did and apologize, then what she did will continue to hurt you if she’s back in your life.
I don’t believe that anyone should expect forgiveness. For example: I am no longer on speaking terms with a former friend of mine. I have sincerely apologized to her, and I have asked her to call me so that we can try to sort things out. She doesn’t want to have anything to do with me though. It’s unfortunate, but I respect her decision. I have done what I can to make amends, but I don’t expect her to forgive me. The woman who wronged you should, in my opinion, do the same thing: Apologize and offer to make amends, without expecting or demanding forgiveness.
It’s been a long time since my last theology class, but IIRC, in order to receive forgiveness, you must:
1 repent (that is, realize that what you did is wrong)
2 confess (ask God for forgiveness)
3 atone (do something to compensate for the pain you caused)
4 humbly accept the forgiveness received (which includes things like not boasting “ha ha, all I had to do was say I was sorry and he fell for it!” - doing this would also mean you missed point 1)
Most Catholic priests will tell you to “go and apologize to the person you hurt” as part of the atonement. You have to bind the wounds you caused. Speaking about the problem with those people helps you and them keep it from happening again.
I am not a Christian, but did attend schools with Christian education. I was always lead to believe that part of earning the forgiveness of God was trying to earn the forgiveness of those you hurt.
It’s hard to imagine a Christian God forgiving her without her trying to earn the forgiveness of your family. That’s not to say she’d need to receive it - you could all shun her (in a non-Christian manner), and God could say “well, at least you tried… I forgive you”.
It really doesn’t matter if its religiously acceptable, if you don’t feel things are settled then they are not settled. The other person agknowledging that what they did was wrong and they regret it is a big part of healing, and if you don’t get that then it could just fester.
That is hard to say. Her life seems like any one else’s. But I have a feeling she will still do whatever she needs to do to get what she wants. But she has not done anything as terriblw as what she did many years ago.
Personally (Christian here), there’s two things going on:
Your job, if you’re a Christian, is to forgive her even if she never apologizes for the rest of her life. Because even if Jesus didn’t command it, holding a grudge only hurts yourself anyway. But that doesn’t mean you have to hang out with her. If you still feel hurt and betrayed, and being around her only brings out those feelings, than the right thing to do would be to distance yourself from her and not give yourself the opportunity to be tempted into thinking ugly thoughts again.
Her job, if she’s a Christian, is to genuinely attempt to make amends even if no-one forgives her. Jesus didn’t just say “Your sins are forgiven”, He also said “go and sin no more”. Even if her accounts are clear with God, she still has to deal with the consequences of whatever she did. She can’t just go on as if nothing happened, especially if what she did was as grave as you suggest.
