What, exactly, is "graduate school"?

[WarmNPrickly]

What, exactly, is “graduate school”?

Graduate school is a place where arrogant people learn how to become more arrogant. That is with the exception of those in school to learn from others. Those people become more humble. Some people are there to get a paper that says they are smarter than everyone else. Others are interested in the subject they study.

Don’t ever let someone shove a degree in your face and say “because I said so.” A good PhD should know how to talk to your level. There are some stupid PhD’s and some smart bachelors degrees. It is up to the observer to distinguish the two, but don’t do it with prejudice.

[BlakeTyner]

Excellent points, Northern Piper and Billdo, Seminary schools do, to the best of my knowledge, grant the MDiv and DD degrees. My other undergraduate minor was religion, and I was thinking about my profs, who were all pastors with academic PhD’s. But thinking back, y’all are right, all of them had graduated from academic universities. A couple came to us from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, where they had been profs, and I guess I wasn’t thinking hard enough to separate the two. I know the general thinking toward religion (and ones like southern Baptist in particular) on the board, and share it for the most part, but my religion profs were wonderful people and teachers. They were most assuredly NOT in the Jerry Falwell school of thinking.

Whole Bean, I am somewhat curious about your statement about med schools. I’ve been giving some thought about going back for a post-bacc science program (because I lack the prereqs in Bio, Chem, Org Chem, etc) and every medical school I’ve looked at requires a degree. There are some that you can be admitted to before completing it, but you still have to finish before you get done with the MD or DO program. And, there’s at least one program somewhere that admits you out of high school, but it still follows the progression; it’s just a sort of “full/early admission” to the medical school when you’re accepted into the undergraduate program.

In no case have I seen a medical school require a certain major, so long as you have a bachelor’s degree and the aforementioned science prereqs + MCAT. I hear that having a humanities major is sometimes beneficial these days, in fact. Still, I’m curious about a medical school that would admit based on MCAT scores only.

Edited to add:
Christopher, I think you’re right on as well. There is, often times, pretention within the academic ranks that is wholly unjustified. I was fortunate enough to never experience it as an undergrad, but in looking at graduate opportunities, I’ve seen it first hand.

Heck, I have a buddy in the Army with just a high school diploma that I think could take on some of the PhD’s I’ve interviewed at universities I shant mention publicly.

[Voyager]

@TYOV

A degree of any kind is documentation that you have some level of competance in a particular field. The higher the degree, the greater your knowledge. If I walked into Lockheed Martin and told everybody that I know more about aerodynamics than anyone else on the planet, they’d laugh at me even if it was true. I’d have to go to an accredited institute of higher learning and demonstrate my knowledge. If the board of regents agreed, they’d give me a PhD (doctor of philosophy) degree. Then when I go back to Lockheed they’d listen because some institution they recognize certified me.

No, demonstrating knowledge is only the first step to a Ph.D., as shown through quals and the literature survey part of your dissertation. (You had better make sure no one has done your project before you!) That isn’t enough - you need to demonstrate that you can add to knowledge.

[pravnik]

@whole bean

Given that this is GQ, I just gotta ask for a cite . . . or is this just rectal oration? Lawyers have done a pretty good job of protecting their profession from non-lawyers and are therefore able to do a lot to influence fees regardless fo the formal name of the degree, which one would only see if looking at a lawyer’s resume. Some American law schools still award LLBs (Yale, I think still does) and LLMs are common for specializing, say in Tax or Admiralty (ironically, you would get it after your JD). It’s my understanding that in days of yore, when LLB was the standard, legal doctorates were largely honorary degrees.

In Chronos defense, I have seen that rationale on the boards before:

@Billdo in another thread

Way back a half century or so ago, most US law schools gave their graduates the LL.B. degree (Bachelor of Laws). This stemmed from back earlier when law schools did not require a separate undergraduate bachelors degree befofe admission.

Eventually, some bright lawyer recognized that in federal government employment, someone with a doctoral-level degree was paid more than someone with merely a bachelors. The law schools were convinced that it was not preposterous to award a J.D. (Juris Doctor) degree to students who had completed a three-year post-bachelors program (as a bachelors was pretty much required for admission by then), so they switched the degree they awarded from the LL.B. to the J.D. They also permitted their LL.B. graduates to “trade in” their LL.B. for a J.D. if they wanted.

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

@Crescend

In the US, when someone says “graduate school”, they usually mean a post-graduate program that awards degrees other than Law or Medicine. Although these degrees are technically “post-graduate”, they have separate degree-granting bodies (Colleges of Law and Medicine, respectively - other graduate students are under the aegis of the Graduate College), and are not considered “graduate school” in the common sense of the word. Medical school, in fact, is considered to be “undergraduate medical education” - residency is the real “post-graduate medical education”.

This may be related to the fact that in the past, students could sometimes enter medical schools without having any bachelor’s degree at all. Instead they’d just need to have taken certain prerequisites in the relevant sciences. My father got his MD in 1948 and he has no bachelor’s degree. I don’t know about law schools though. When law school became the standard preparation for new lawyers, was a BA usually a prerequisite, or did stuents go straignt in?

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

@Crescend

In the US, when someone says “graduate school”, they usually mean a post-graduate program that awards degrees other than Law or Medicine. Although these degrees are technically “post-graduate”, they have separate degree-granting bodies (Colleges of Law and Medicine, respectively - other graduate students are under the aegis of the Graduate College), and are not considered “graduate school” in the common sense of the word. Medical school, in fact, is considered to be “undergraduate medical education” - residency is the real “post-graduate medical education”.

This may be related to the fact that in the past, students could sometimes enter medical schools without having any bachelor’s degree at all. Instead they’d just need to have taken certain prerequisites in the relevant sciences. My father got his MD in 1948 and he has no bachelor’s degree.

[GorillaMan]

@Spectre of Pithecanthropus

This may be related to the fact that in the past, students could sometimes enter medical schools without having any bachelor’s degree at all. Instead they’d just need to have taken certain prerequisites in the relevant sciences. My father got his MD in 1948 and he has no bachelor’s degree.

It’s also worth noting that the British equivalent of an MD is a Bachelor of Medicine. So the vast majority of people here called Doctor don’t have doctorates.

[Hypnagogic_Jerk]

@Spectre of Pithecanthropus

This may be related to the fact that in the past, students could sometimes enter medical schools without having any bachelor’s degree at all.

I guess that in the US, this isn’t possible anymore, but here in Quebec, it actually is possible to enter medical school just after leaving cégep. It takes really impressive grades, though.

[Crescend]

@severus

I guess that in the US, this isn’t possible anymore, but here in Quebec, it actually is possible to enter medical school just after leaving cégep. It takes really impressive grades, though.

There are a few BS/MD programs around in the US. My alma mater has one. It doesn’t mean that you can go to medical school before you finish your bachelor’s degree, but rather that you are “pre-admitted” to medical school upon undergraduate matriculation. Once you successfully earn your bachelor’s degree and meet a few other requirements (GPA cutoff, MCAT score cutoff), you take your reserved seat in the medical school.

[Crescend]

@GorillaMan

It’s also worth noting that the British equivalent of an MD is a Bachelor of Medicine. So the vast majority of people here called Doctor don’t have doctorates.

Most places other than the United States have a similar system. The professional degree for medicine is a 6-year bachelor’s degree.

[Shagnasty]

@Spectre of Pithecanthropus

When law school became the standard preparation for new lawyers, was a BA usually a prerequisite, or did stuents go straignt in?

If you back back a little ways, you didn’t even have to go school to be a lawyer. I don’t think Abraham Lincoln did. A little more modern, some states would let people “sit” for the bar exam without going to law school. If they passed just from their own study, they were lawyers. I am not sure if there is anywhere that allows that anymore but it was allowed with living memory at least.

[rackensack]

@Shagnasty

If you back back a little ways, you didn’t even have to go school to be a lawyer. I don’t think Abraham Lincoln did. A little more modern, some states would let people “sit” for the bar exam without going to law school. If they passed just from their own study, they were lawyers. I am not sure if there is anywhere that allows that anymore but it was allowed with living memory at least.

Indeed. My college girlfriend’s father, who was in his sixties when I knew him twenty-five years ago, was among the last of those admitted to the bar in Arkansas without having attended law school. He “read law” (i.e., studied law on his own), worked as a law clerk for an attorney, and passed the bar exam. I seem to recall reading obituaries of attorneys here in Georgia having done the same, as late as the 1940s or even later.

[DSYoungEsq]

Does anyone bother to read the links I post?

[Shagnasty]

@DSYoungEsq

Does anyone bother to read the links I post?

Not until we are admonished for it.

It indicates that you can sit for the bar in some places including California and New York. I always wanted to give lawyering a try. This weekend I can do some of that online learning they mentioned to prepare for that little test that lets you practice.

[Mathochist]

For comparison (nothing contradicts what others say)

Yale University consists of Yale College (wherein the undergraduates enroll), the schools of:

Medicine
Nursing
Law
Arts
Architecture
Drama
Music
Forestry
Divinity
Management

and the Hall of Graduate Studies. While many people would refer to all of these other than Yale College as “graduate school”, the ten schools are (mostly) populated by “professional students”, who are studying for professional degrees. Some of those degrees are even called “doctorates”, though the holders do no teaching. Graduate students proper are in purely academic departments and are enrolled in the HGS.

[sturmhauke]

@scotandrsn

California has a very carefully worked out program whereby classes you take at any of the community colleges transfer for credit toward specific requirements at either of the state university systems, and my impression is that most people at the community colleges are there to fulfill those requirements, although there are also plenty there to receive an Associate Degree.

It’s not quite that simple. You have to check the course catalog to make sure the class you want is transferable. Also, some classes are transferable to the University of California system but not the California State University system, or vice versa.

I went to a community college first and then transfered to a CSU. As it happened, I completed an AA in Liberal Arts degree at the community college, but I was just trying to meet my transfer requirements. That situation is probably somewhat unusual.

[scotandrsn]

@sturmhauke

It’s not quite that simple. You have to check the course catalog to make sure the class you want is transferable. Also, some classes are transferable to the University of California system but not the California State University system, or vice versa.

I went to a community college first and then transfered to a CSU. As it happened, I completed an AA in Liberal Arts degree at the community college, but I was just trying to meet my transfer requirements. That situation is probably somewhat unusual.

I did the same thing (minus the AA), but my point is, at least there’s a system, which is not the case everywhere. Community Colleges in MA were largely seen as a dead end when I was living there.

[Voyager]

@Shagnasty

If you back back a little ways, you didn’t even have to go school to be a lawyer. I don’t think Abraham Lincoln did. A little more modern, some states would let people “sit” for the bar exam without going to law school. If they passed just from their own study, they were lawyers. I am not sure if there is anywhere that allows that anymore but it was allowed with living memory at least.

Not only Lincoln, but Teddy Roosevelt became a lawyer without going to law school. He did go to Harvard as an undergrad, not Harvard Law.

[pool]

I had a question although I know this thread has been dead a few days. Can people get a Master’s Degree even if it differs from their Bachelor’s? Like can someone with a degree in Finance go back and get a Master’s in Electrical Engineering, though I would think they would have to have some prerequisites done first.

[Colibri]

@pool

I had a question although I know this thread has been dead a few days. Can people get a Master’s Degree even if it differs from their Bachelor’s? Like can someone with a degree in Finance go back and get a Master’s in Electrical Engineering, though I would think they would have to have some prerequisites done first.

With that big a difference in fields you would virtually have to get a second Bachelor’s in order to go for a Master’s.

If it were two different fields in science you might have some better odds.