Hi
As far as I know the UK comprises England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Has that status changed despite its self-government?
What exactly is the status of Northern Ireland vis-a-vis the UK. Is it still correct to call it part of the UK?
I look forward to your feedback.
davidmich
Thanks Mops.
This is the problem I was hoping someone could clarify for me…It seems it is still “part of the UK.” That status hasn’t changed.
"Owing in part to the way in which the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland, came into being, there is no legally defined term to describe what Northern Ireland ‘is’…
…Some authors have described the meaning of this term as being equivocal: referring to Northern Ireland as being a province both of the United Kingdom and of the traditional country of Ireland.[97]
“Region” is used by several UK government agencies and the European Union. Some authors choose this word but note that it is “unsatisfactory”.[7][8] Northern Ireland can also be simply described as “part of the UK”, including by UK government offices.[81]. "
In sum, Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, but has self-government except for the areas bolded above.
Thank you dofe. Very helpful
davidmich
Yes, it is part of the UK. You hear the sort of mealy-mouthed talk above because people are afraid of needlessly offending those with republican sentiments. I’ve met Irish Americans who can’t stand even acknowledging that “Northern Ireland” exists - they’ll say something like “Never heard of the place”.
There’s also a cliche floating among rebel types around that N.I. is going to join the Republic of Ireland any day now! It’s only a matter of time! But the reality is very different and complex (one of the things that makes N.I. culture very interesting, in my opinion)
Thanks LC Strawhouse. Very enlightening.
davidmich
It certainly feels like the republic is a de facto part of the UK, so I guess that would go double for Northern Ireland. (Which I’ve only visited once for a few hours.)
Don’t let anyone from Eire hear you say that!
The full title of the UK is ‘The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.’
As anyone who’s ever seen episode 1.4 of Yes Prime Minister will never forget!
From all the information above, there’s no doubt Northern Ireland is part of the UK. It has representation in both British Houses of Parliament (and AFAIK none in the Irish legislature), its foreign policy is wholly controlled by the British government, it uses the pound sterling and not the punt, and any military presence is by British forces. And let’s not forget Northern Ireland was devolved in the 1922-1969 period, as are Scotland and Wales today, and no one legally doubted it was part of the UK.
The punt doesn’t exist anymore anyway. The South uses the euro.
There are some constitutional distinctions as a result of the Good Friday Agreement; there are north/south bodies to oversee matters where it is felt that island-wide policies are mutually beneficial, such as waterways and tourism. There are also north/south ministerial and interparliamentary bodies, though unionist engagement with the latter in particular has been less than enthusiastic. For the most part, though, the South’s role in the affairs of the North isn’t much more than diplomatic.
The “rebel types” that LC Strawhouse refers to must be in North America. Nobody I’ve ever encountered in Ireland (either part) believes reunification is going to happen any time soon, if at all.
One problem with re-unification is that the Republic isn’t really interested in taking it on.
The deal over the status of Northern Ireland was hammered out over many years of exhausting negotiations between the Unionists and Republicans in the North, the Irish Republic in the South and the UK government. The deal, known as the Good Friday agreement led to the ceasing of hostilities by all the protagonists.
The deal was to have some powers reserved for the UK government based in London Westminster, which has MPs from Northern Ireland, a devolved government assembly in Northern Ireland that has to power over another set of government responsibilities. Then there are some institutions that are ‘cross border’ and involve the Republic of Ireland.
This was a complex Constitutional settlement arrived at after a decades of conflict. For the most part it is holding firm and is considered a success.
The Republic of Ireland and the UK are in a Common Travel Area. Nationals of either country do not need a visa to travel between each country and people can live and work in each country easily.
This is a separate Common Travel Area from the one that exists amongst the EU countries.
It is all a bit complicated, but then Constitutional matters are generally like that. The relationship between Ireland and the rest of the British Isles has been a perplexing conundrum for politicians for several hundred years.
If you ask the same question about Scotland next month, there might be some interesting answers since they are about to vote whether they want independence.
This type of diagram can be helpful in sorting out what’s what in the British Isles.
This diagram shows a broader scope of it.
I am a fan of CP Grey and his condensed explanations of complicated subjects with animations and an ironic voiceover.
He covers the relationship between the different bits of the British Isles quite well.
Two small nitpicks: the CTA addresses border controls, not rights of residency/employment, and it allows for nationals of either country to travel to the other without a passport.
Visa, seriously?
As an EU citizen you can pretty much go as you please between EU countries. You can even travel between the US/Canada and the EU without a visa.
Yes, the UK and the Republic of Ireland aren’t part of Schengen, so you do have to go through immigration when you travel between the UK and mainland Europe (including when using a ferry or the channel tunnel train), but that’s just a formality.
I once took the train from Dublin to Belfast, though, and I had my passport out and everything when I deboarded, but nobody cared…
When you travel between the UK (EU but non-Schengen) and the mainland EU, you do have to go through immigration but not customs. When you travel between the mainland EU and Switzerland, on the other hand, you don’t have to go through immigration (Switzerland is a Schengen member) but you do have to go through customs! (They’re not an EU member.) And those drug sniffing dogs they have at the Geneva train station are fierce…
One thing abut the Venn diagram above. I’m English and I’ve been told off before, by an Irishman, for calling the collection of Islands the “British Isles”.
I could (and never would!) call The Republic “De-facto UK”. It would go down worse than calling Canada part of the US.
there’s lots of shared interests, shared points of reference but are we the same? Oh no sir!
The diagram in This type of diagram is just plain wrong. The Irish Republic has not been part of The UK since independence in 1922. It also misses the smaller islands out altogether. The second illustration is far more useful.