Let’s just simplify it because you’ll never get it anyway.
Just don’t change your skin color to look like another race. This is not some great injustice to you. Just don’t do it. End of story.
That is a powerful, logical argument. How about this:
I will. End of story.
Do I now win because I made a bald assertion?
Except also nothing necessary about that, and given the history and culture that you are at least now aware of, then you can understand why someone would think it io be nefarious, and knowing why someone would think it to be nefarious, going on and doing it anyway is being nefarious. (Or trolling, take your pick.)
The suit, gun, and murder do not define the actors, but they do define the characters taht they play.
Speaking of “accuracy” they are both 6’2". Why have you not defined them in terms of their height? If you are a couple inches short, will you only be able to play characters played by Nicholas Cage? Even shorter and you are limited to Tom Cruise characters?
It has been explained as to why altering the color of your skin for “a few laughs” is not a laughing matter to many.
Who would you be offending? Well, you are directly disrespecting people with dark skin, as you know the history and reasons that altering skin tone for “laughs” has been used specifically for harmful and oppressive purposes, so you would be offending anyone who is aware of the history of racism and blackface, and is not an advocate of it.
That does seem to be the exact opposite of what enalzi and monstro is saying. that costumes are made for the enjoyment of the person wearing the costume, not to reach some arbitrary threshold of “okay”. If you are entering a costume contest, then better than “okay” may be necessary if you want to win, but there is no cosplay convention that would ever consider a mismatch of skin tone to be a mark against the work someone put into making a costume.*
*ETA: unless you are cosplaying Piccolo.
As long as you’re fine with everyone thinking you’re a terrible person, then yes you win.
“norms”?
Which “white people”? interacting with which “other people”? neither of them will be a homogeneous mass of identikit behaviours and characteristics. You might want to reconsider your reasons for being not willing to, or able to, clarify what you mean.
Really? concrete proof? nothing in this thread leads me to conclude any such thing, nor should it do for you because at the very core is the fact that you are only going to get a self-selecting response in here and that’s a very poor basis on which to judge a complete ethnic group.
If it helps give you a clearer data-point, let me state for the record that a person’s skin colour can and is divorced from their character.
I have stated several times that I think dressing up in a costume is playing dress up and make believe. A fun little activity for the imagination if you will.
IMHO the fact that you feel you can’t achieve proper character immersion without altering your skin tone (to match the race of your chosen persona) says a lot about how important the color of a person’s skin is to your world view. As a black person who enjoy’s ALL the nerdy shit, if I want to dream about being one of my favorite characters should I only stick to black characters? If I want to pretend to be Superman do I have to pretend to be a white guy too?
Your justification, and your accusation of trolling, is that in response to my question of why it is bad is the recirculation of the argument that it is bad. Is it “necessary”? Of course not. Costumes are not necessary either? Since when is absolute necessity the standard for anything?
I suppose that before an informal party, I could order a medieval rack and have it installed in my garage and torture myself for a few weeks before the party, but that is probably a bit extreme. A few dabs of makeup? Not so much.
Again, you are just recycling the arguments. Because people several decades ago used a ridiculous costume makeup to intentionally make fun of black people and perpetuate the stereotypes, that means that some unelected minority of a minority can dictate that no makeup with regards to skin color can now be used is ridiculous to me.
This isn’t about a personal belief, it is about telling others what they can and cannot do and restrict their actions. Where does it stop and what are the standards? If there is no logical explanation for this “being offended” forthcoming, then personally, I don’t accept it.
Point out a tangible harm, and I will of course listen to it. I will not atone for the sins of my ancestors by hopping left and right every time some new fad is imposed upon me by those people who claim to be offended. Give me the logical explanation, not a reason you would treat a child in a certain way. If we are going to get along in modern society, we cannot keep making demands on one another.
These fucking millennials have never seen a blackface performance except on YouTube and yet they are “offended” by costumes. Fuck off with that nonsense. I don’t control your life and you don’t control mine. Give me a good reason why you are offended by my conduct and I will stop immediately; but I am not going to listen every 10 years as to why my ancestors’ conduct is now viewed in a new light and more importantly how I must correct it.
No you won’t because you will never accept a reason as valid. This whole exercise is pointless.
Which white people? The ones who think blackface is acceptable.
Interacting with which other people? All other people.
I’m not judging an entire ethnic group. I’m judging people who think blackface is acceptable. Sorry, I thought the answers to those questions were self evident and did not require clarification.
And yes, I believe that if you think that blackface is acceptable and/or that you must match skin tone in order to cosplay a character then you place a large value on the color of a person’s skin.
It is a repeating, over and over, as to why, for historical and contemporary reasons, people will find it offensive if you make the decision to alter your skin tone to that of another ethnic group. It is not you that I accuse of trolling, it is the person that knows that they will offend wby wearing blackface, but does it anyway.
When you have competing interests. If you are Mr. Jackson’s stunt double, then it would be necessary for you to be as accurate in verisimilitude as possible.
If it is not necessary, then you have no compelling need to do it. And if there is no compelling need to do it, and if it is something that may offend, then why do it?
So, accuracy is not important to you.
Repeating, not recycling, and this will be the last time, because no matter how many times it has been repeated, in many ways, you have every time ignored the words actually used, and made up your own argument to rail against.
Yes, part of the reason for not trying to make yourself look like a different ethnic group is because that is something that we have a history with, where it was used for the specific purpose of mocking those ethnic groups. It is a very hard line to try to take to try to imitate without mocking, and it is probably best to just stay away from that line, as there is no actual bright line, and you will offend some people no matter how respectful you try to be.
As well, you will be giving cover for those who have no desire to be respectful.
No, it is not telling people what they can and cannot do, it is just explain that there are somethings you can do that will piss people off. You can walk down the street screaming at the top of your lungs all the expletives your little heart desires, but I would not recommend it.
You can wear skin darkening makeup as part of your costume, if that is what you desire, but, also, I would not recommend it.
Then don’t. No one asked you to atone for the sins of your ancestors.
We’re just saying that if you emulate the sins of your ancestors, you may be judged similar.
Black face has been offensive long before millennials were a gleam in their parent’s eye.
Some Moors were indeed Black Africans (they were all Africans in any case) - the Sahara wasn’t some Great Wall preventing Africans from travelling North - but that’s irrelevant. I also said POC.
Sir Morien is the one I’d call Black - because that’s how he’s described:
there came riding towards them a knight on a goodly steed, and well armed withal. He was all black, even as I tell ye: his head, his body, and his hands were all black, saving only his teeth.
I am not talking about “blackface” yet the responses seem to suggest I am.
Maybe not conciously or purposely but looking through winners it’s awfully hard to find a winning white Blade or Jax, pretty easy to find winning black Blades and Jax.
If your just having fun I guess who cares, but if you’re trying to win, people do seem to take into account how much you look like your character.
For me ,my 10yr old has seen his mother painted every color of the rainbow just about, with nothing tainting his thoughts against it, he thought it would be.just fine to be painted to look like any of his favorite characters.
He draws much less distinction between avatar and agent J.
I’m certain he thinks he needs every other entrapment of a character much more and is usually satisfied just saying I’m so and so
But he does have eyeballs and knows how he can look more like a character.
It’s basically a moot point in practical terms but …is what it is.
There are such a myriad of characters that really in any given circumstance everyone here has valid points.
Originally, I was really trying to draw a line since it seemed like anything and everything could be interpreted poorly.
If anything it seems like by and large people are far more reasonable than I was led to believe.
Oh ok.
Well , then I guess its just something you don’t see often.
It was the first I’d seen a bunch of black people in chainmale on anything that i remember.
The whole knight thing seems pretty heavily European.
Btw I also read an article that despite 96 percent of stuntworkers being white because it’s just not a commonly chosen profession for black people, there is still strong arguments that painting a stunt double is offensive, and takes work away from black people.
The somebody in street clothes portraying Spiderman comment was a hilarious idea that does illustrate the point of strictly portraying a character by their essence probably isn’t gonna work too well unless you’re a kid on the playground with no costumes available.
I think we all agree skin tone change is almost never necessary to portray a character but arguing it wouldn’t contribute to easy identification in many cases does seem ridiculous.
I’d wager it does cause a lot of people to just pick a different character.
It’s just “mail”, the “chain” is redundant. And just because you’d never seen it, doesn’t mean it never happened - not just in Moorish Spain, but elsewhere too.
Next you’ll be telling me there weren’t Black Roman legionaries…
…and European only and always means White, is what you’re saying.
Even though I’m telling you that the medieval Knights themselves delighted in stories featuring Black and other POC Knights. They didn’t seem to have a problem with it.
Nobody does…that’s the point.
Unless you reverse it…then it’s some big media spread outrage.
There were white slaves too, doesn’t mean reproducing roots with an all white cast would just be cool, but you know, if it struck someone as odd because it wasn’t a major thing that would just be ridiculous.
Aaah, I was right, this is one of those threads. OK, done here.