What happens if Obama dies tomorrow?

[UltraVires]

@md2000

As for voting, remember that AG Ashcroft lost his election to a dead guy. We presume that was as much the sympathy vote as a reflection on Ashcroft’s appeal…

While technically true, it wasn’t in a practical sense. When Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash before the election, it was too late to remove his name from the ballot. However, the governor at the time made a public announcement that should Carnahan win, he would appoint his widow to the U.S. Senate in his stead. This was well announced and circulated.

So Missouri voters KNEW that they were choosing between Ashcroft and Mrs. Carnahan. There was no sympathy vote or an embarrassment of Ashcroft losing to a dead guy. Michael Moore was the one that started this embellishment on the idea.

[Little_Nemo]

@yabob

Also, if it played out like Greeley, but with Obama’s electors having the majority, it could be a real mess. Only about 1/3 of Greeley’s electors voted for his running mate.

It also happened in 1912. The incumbent Vice President, James Sherman, died six days before the election. Nicholas Butler, the President of Columbia University and a Republican adviser, was quickly named as a replacement candidate. But the ballots had been made already so technically people were voting for Taft/Sherman electors not Taft/Butler electors. Which turned out to be a moot point, as the Republicans only carried two states.

[aceplace57]

Mel Carnahan was the guy I was referring too earlier in my post. Dead guys can remain on the ballot if they die close to an election.

@jtgain

While technically true, it wasn’t in a practical sense. When Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash before the election, it was too late to remove his name from the ballot. However, the governor at the time made a public announcement that should Carnahan win, he would appoint his widow to the U.S. Senate in his stead. This was well announced and circulated.

So Missouri voters KNEW that they were choosing between Ashcroft and Mrs. Carnahan. There was no sympathy vote or an embarrassment of Ashcroft losing to a dead guy. Michael Moore was the one that started this embellishment on the idea.

[MandaJo]

Even when there are “faithless electors” laws, those don’t change the vote, do they? They just mean the elector can be prosecuted afterwards.

[Hershele_Ostropoler]

@Condescending_Robot

Voters would be made aware that a vote for the Obama line is a vote for this scenario.

As a poll worker, I think you are being extremely optimistic about how easy it is to make the voters aware of anything.

[Leo_Bloom]

@aceplace57

Mel Carnahan was the guy I was referring too earlier in my post. Dead guys can remain on the ballot if they die close to an election.

“If nominated, I will not breathe. If elected, I will not metabolise.”

[Little_Nemo]

@MandaJo

Even when there are “faithless electors” laws, those don’t change the vote, do they? They just mean the elector can be prosecuted afterwards.

It could lead to some interesting cases. I can see lawsuits being filed stating that Electoral votes cast in defiance of state laws were illegal and therefore invalid and shouldn’t be counted. Throw out a couple of dozen votes and the leading candidate no longer has a majority so the decision goes to Congress.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@Leo_Bloom

“If nominated, I will not breathe. If elected, I will not metabolise.”

“…and if impeached, I will not budge.”

[joebuck20]

How does one find out who the electors are for this election? I tried looking at the Web sites for the secretary of state and board of elections in my state, but couldn’t find a list of electors anywhere. Google revealed that some states had their list of electors online, but is there anywhere I can find a “master list” for all the states?

[Leo_Bloom]

Well, that raises another question: if one of the electors gets eaten by a gator?

I think we’re onto how Florida politics works, as Mr. Gore found.

[Little_Nemo]

What if a gator is appointed as an Elector and then has an opportunity to eat Obama? How does the gator resolve the conflict of interest between its duties as an Elector and its being hungry? If Obama pushed a nearby reporter at the gator to eat instead, would that be seen as an attempt at influencing the gator’s vote? And what would be the First Amendment issues?

Why hasn’t the Supreme Court ruled on these questions?

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@Little_Nemo

What if a gator is appointed as an Elector and then has an opportunity to eat Obama? How does the gator resolve the conflict of interest between its duties as an Elector and its being hungry? If Obama pushed a nearby reporter at the gator to eat instead, would that be seen as an attempt at influencing the gator’s vote? And what would be the First Amendment issues?

Why hasn’t the Supreme Court ruled on these questions?

Because, notoriously, they have no sense of humor.

[Poisoned]

It depends on the cirumstances under which Obama was eaten by the crocodile. What if Romney pushed him into the lake?

[Little_Nemo]

@Elendil_s_Heir

Because, notoriously, they have no sense of humor.

You’ve obviously been whooshed by Clarence Thomas’ dry sense of ironic humor. He’s obviously doing an extended piece of satirical performance art.

[Diceman]

@jtgain

All of the above are correct, but I would think that in practical terms, Romney gets a 10 point bounce for the known candidate instead of the DNC’s “we will choose a proven leader” promise. Obama becomes Horace Greeley..

Realistically, this is what would happen. Joe Biden is mainly known for saying dumb things and acting like that drunk uncle at your last family reunion. Unless Obama died like 2 hours before polls closed, the election would quickly shift in Romney’s favor, and we’d have a Horace Greeley situation.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

In the last season of The West Wing, Leo McGarry, the former White House chief of staff and the Democratic vice presidential candidate, died of a suspected heart attack on Election Day. IIRC, although the Electoral College was expected to nevertheless vote for him, the President-elect, Matt Santos, intended to nominate a new VP, Eric Baker, governor of Pennsylvania, via the 25th Amendment once he took office.

[DrDeth]

@Derleth

OK, technically, you’re possibly in a very legalistic way more right than I am in some states (and you knew that was coming, right?). Twenty-four states have laws to punish faithless electors. Electors are pledged to a candidate (pair) and not a party. You see where this might go except for the fact humans run the system.

They would prosecute someone for voting Romney/Ryan if they were pledged to Obama/Biden, even if the Obama/Biden ticket was technically Biden/??? at that point. That’s what the law was intended for. The law was not intended to try to make electors vote for a dead person. The state prosecutors would recognize that people who voted Obama/Biden (as it said on their ballot) didn’t vote Romney/Ryan for a reason, and therefore shifting their votes to any candidate or candidates other than the ones the Democratic Party ran would be precisely the kind of thing the law was intended to prohibit.

The underlying difficulty here is that political parties don’t exist in the Constitution. Individual candidates and elected officials exist. Nevertheless, we have parties now, and we’ve organized our electoral system around their existence, particularly in the workings of the Electoral College. So, since the law is administered by humans, electors that would otherwise be pledged to Obama/Biden would be pledged to Biden/???, and the system would be allowed to proceed from there.

Ok, but let us assume that Romney & Ryan both bought it. And the GOP scrambled and came up with Santorum/Paul. Arguably there could be millions of voters who are happy with Romney/Ryan that would spit on a Santorum/Paul ticket. How then do we determine the will of the voters?

[Siam_Sam]

@Musicat

I’d vote for the crocodile. He had good taste.

Whereas the president tasted like chicken.