What has the UN acomplished anyway?

[BrightNShiny]

I should clarify something here. The NPT came into effect in 1970. Prior to this, most European states had not created active nuke programs. Some of them for ideological reasons (e.g., the Scandinavian countries) and some for technical or economic reasons (it’s not cheap or easy to build a nuke). Furthermore, most Europeans countries were either implicitly or explicitly covered by either the USSR’s or the American’s nuclear umbrellas, meaning that they didn’t really need to develop independent nuke programs. But the same is not true of a number of other countries throughout the world, and I just don’t see any reason to think these countries wouldn’t have pursued nuke programs in the absence of the NPT. The NPT creates a carrot and stick mechanism to incentivize countries to avoid nukes. Of course, since the UN has no standing enforcement power, the stick is dependent on member countries for its weight. But given that world is concerned about both NK and Iran’s nuke programs, I don’t see why I should buy the notion that the world wouldn’t be equally concerned if any number of other countries were busily building nukes.

[Polycarp]

@BrotherCadfael

@Little_Nemo

The United Nations stopped World War III, IV, and V.

Cite?

“Tiger repellent.”

[Little_Nemo]

@Damuri_Ajashi

I believe WWIV was supposed to fought with sticks.

No, common misconception.

We were going to be fighting with Styx. And Kansas and Journey. The Axis of Prog Rock.

[Squink]

Up and Coming Accomplishment:

UN ‘to appoint space ambassador to greet alien visitors’

Mazlan Othman, a Malaysian astrophysicist, is set to be tasked with co-ordinating humanity’s response if and when extraterrestrials make contact.

Aliens who landed on earth and asked: “Take me to your leader” would be directed to Mrs Othman.
…
Mrs Othman is currently head of the UN’s little known Office for Outer Space Affairs (Unoosa).

[Lantern]

@RickJay

@BrightNShiny

Please. Your examples are merely things which are difficult to do within the UN’s current design or which aren’t even in the UN’s purview. For example, you seem to think the UN has failed at non-proliferation because it didn’t prevent India and Pakistan from getting nukes. As I’ve already pointed out, since neither India or Pakistan are signatories to the NPT, their nuke issues are not within the UN’s purview.

Even as a defender of the UN I have to admit that this is a colossally lame riposte. No offense meant. The NPT is utterly pointless unless, in fact, it inhibits the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Just having SOME countries agree not to build nukes, the vast majority if not all of whom wouldn’t have built them anyway, could be pretty reasonably argued to be a useless gesture - nobody was worried about the Icelandic nuclear weapons program to start with.

There are a lot of second-grade powers who have the technical capability to build nuclear weapons, don’t need them as a matter of vital national security and yet might be tempted to build them as an instrument of national prestige. Countries like Brazil, Turkey, Argentina, Indonesia etc. The NPT creates a framework of incentives to keep such countries from going nuclear. A part of this is that it assures them that a large majority of similar powers won’t go nuclear either including their regional rivals like Brazil/Argentina. And numbers matter. A world of 20 nuclear powers is worse than one with 8/9.

Only one non-nuclear power under the NPT has subsequently gone nuclear: North Korea one of the nuttiest regimes in world history, and even then only after collossal mismanagement by the Bush administration. I would say that makes the NPT pretty successful.

[spifflog]

@Voyager

Perhaps if Bush had paid a bit more attention to the UN they could have rounded up a majority in the SC about Iraq. There was none of the crap with Bush the Elder, and he did a great job in getting diplomatic support for his war.

Wow, we managed to go 20 posts without a gratuitous bashing of President Bush, totally unrelated to the topic at hand. Pretty impressive!