Except for us angsty NY liberal types. It’s rednecks and Woody Allens.
BigT
August 26, 2016, 7:18pm
82
What I learned is that there is a rule against men and women touching in Roma society.
I learned a lot about human nature, both for good and for ill. I basically learned that I was a liberal. There are facts I’ve learned, but I’ve always been the type to forget where I learn things, and only know them in context.
Let’s see what I remember off the top of my head: I learned about the show QI, which I love. I learned that not everyone sees smiling and greeting people as a good thing. I have a better appreciation for why some people are atheists. And I learned a lot about Jewish things.
BigT:
What I learned is that there is a rule against men and women touching in Roma society.
I learned a lot about human nature, both for good and for ill. I basically learned that I was a liberal. There are facts I’ve learned, but I’ve always been the type to forget where I learn things, and only know them in context.
Let’s see what I remember off the top of my head: I learned about the show QI, which I love. I learned that not everyone sees smiling and greeting people as a good thing. I have a better appreciation for why some people are atheists. And I learned a lot about Jewish things.
Cite on the Roma society no touching rule, please.
ThelmaLou:
The passive voice can indeed be unclear and should be avoided if you’re trying to communicate. If you want to hide the actor and be secretive about the locus of responsibility, then by all means, indulge in it to your heart’s content. “Mistakes were made.” BY WHOM?
I worked for decades with a woman who was the Queen of the Passive Voice, and most of the time, I had to interrogate her to find out what the hell she was talking about.
She’d come out of a meeting and say, “I was told to get the report in today.”
Her: “It was decided that we’re canceling the luncheon.”
Her: “Joe Blow was removed from the committee.”
And on and on. She gave me the feeling that she was deliberately hiding information. My impression was that she was raised to be a super “nice girl,” and that somehow the Passive Voice was genteel and gave you a way to avoid revealing potentially controversial details, like who actually DID something or who was responsible for something. Used to drive me nuts.
How much clearer the above exchange would have gone without the P.V.: “Mike told me to get that report in today. Then Bob and Carol decided to cancel the luncheon, since there’s never a good turnout. Pete finally removed Joe Blow from the committee and replaced him with Mary Lou.”
Why didn’t you say so in the first place?
In today’s Washington Post online.
‘The system is rigged’: How politicians use the passive voice as a rhetorical cheat
Every political hack — every hack, at least, who has even a mild appreciation for language — knows the value of the passive voice. **The passive allows you to say something was done or said or believed without saying who did or said or believed it. **The most notorious instance of the passive in politics is, of course, “Mistakes were made” — a phrase that, despite decades of ridicule, public officials still use routinely to admit the existence of wrongdoing without specifying the wrongdoer.
But there are far more creative ways to use it, too. If you want to ridicule a view that nobody holds and thus present yourself as nobler or braver than you are, try “what we’re being asked to believe.” “What we’re being asked to believe is that women are second-class citizens.” Who’s asking you to believe that? Nobody, really; we’re just “being asked” to believe it. Or if you want to give more credibility to a position than it really has — if you want to make it sound like the consensus view when it isn’t — you might call it a “long held” or “long agreed upon” position. Who held it long ago, exactly? Oh, lots of people…
My bold.
Asimovian:
ThelmaLou , it has been realized by me that the thread was started by you, of course; however, it is thought that the discussion being had by you and Derleth on grammar might be better spun off into its own thread.
ThelmaLou , one last time. Please take that conversation to another thread. This applies to anyone else tempted to respond to the last post. Further delving into the passive voice discussion in this thread will lead to warnings being issued.
I’ve learned that new posters can still bring those same sweet three words to mind, even years after I’ve joined:
I’ve learned that:
Pineapples don’t grow on trees or bushes
That police cruisers really do have red and blue lights some places, so it’s not a TV/movie thing like 555 phone numbers after all
An astonishing number of people don’t believe in free will, shave their genitals, can’t be bothered with capitalization, don’t put a bra on and reach behind themselves to hook them up, and/or stand up to wipe their butts