Oh the will certainly was not there, but the issue in 1919 had been capability, there was a paucity of troops available. By 1921 that had changed, the colonies were quitening down, especially India which had taken the brunt of troops and Iraq. So by the time of the ceasefire the British could have sent more troops to Ireland.
I denounce all terrorism from both sides, and I don’t describe terrorists as freedom fighters either.
As to being on a different page, if telling the truth instead of spouting self serving propaganda is being on a different page then yes I’m on a different page.
If this wasn’t the case then lynch mobs could be called democracy in action.
Short of ethnic cleansing there is less chance of a United Ireland now then probably at any time in history, thanks to your “freedom fighters”.
But of course that might suit some people supposedly on the Nationalist side.
Having the Irish government put you under scrutiny for signs of corruption would be like putting Jack the Ripper to babysit your teenage daughter.
As to the British government ? their motives can be complex so I couldn’t comment.
So, you just keep checking in to assure us you haven’t been done in by bad guys.
(What, exactly, have your screeds to do with 1919?)
While Ireland is somewhat corrupt, (Haughey etc), we are not anywhere near as bad as Italy, Greece or several other European countries.
Well no, by “paying the price” I meant getting getting earache from lots of Nationalists when they give their knee jerk, reactions to my posts.
My “screeds” started as a response to the former.
Really?
Are there posters in this thread who you think are part of the “murdering scum”?
By the by the “Nationalist” are the good guys. SDLP etc. They are the people who believe in a united Ireland but have worked through peaceful means to achieve a goal which you have said you actually agree with.
The term you are looking for in the context you use it is ‘republicans’.
Sinn Fein = Republican
SDLP = Nationalist
Likewise for the other side there is a difference between loyalist and unionists. I would have thought this level of subtlety would have been easy for someone with your vast experience of Irish/NI culture.
Jeez, mate, I’m a Brit and a pragmatist - not Nationalist in my views at all. But your posts about Ireland, over several years now, are almost always misinformed, laden with inaccuracies, full of anecdote presented as generality, and redolent of your emotions presented as fact.
People correct you, usually, just because you’re just plain incorrect.
That you interpret these factual corrections as political bias speaks volumes about your views.
I think the issue at the time is complicated by the NI situation. Assuming the IRA could continue the fight, a massive assumption given their resources are the utter military stupidity of the likes of Cathal Brugha and DeVelera, I think a serious stalemate would have developed.
The British were reorganizing their intelligence groups in Ireland and would probably have gotten to Collins eventually. Not that would have mattered all that much. The IRA realized that they could hurt British rule and hurt it badly. They effectively set up a separate government outside of Dublin and the UK had nearly seeded control to this shadow government. Some sort of unwritten home rule could have existed for years punctuated by intermittent cease fires and renewed violence.
The big issue would have been the North. There is no way that the IRA could have forced the one million or so loyalist from joining any sort of new Ireland. Would the resulting bloodshed have brought the English back into Ireland in greater force and with renewed moral authority?
Hard to tell but I think it is fair to say that Ireland is a lot better off having accepted the treaty.
I once called some extreme Republicans just that and they informed me that they were actually Nationalists.
No doubt the poorly advised attempts to discredit my posts are for the benefit of any gullible Irish Americans (certainly NEVER called, Plastic Paddys because a highly informed Irish person said so) ) reading this; so that they won’t take Republican rhetoric, better known as B.S. as being cynically untrue.
So far the attempts by the various posters(Who of course have no Nationalist agenda and are merely attempting to put the truth of the situation over, honest), have all fallen at the first fence.
You might be better off discrediting my posts for omitting spaces after commas and such like, or perhaps my personality or something, at least that would be honest and might even make sense.
Nice try guys but no cigar.
Has anything you have posted in this thread anything to do with the OP?
Still trying then.
Do you notice how all the Irish people on this thread disagree with you?
All of them.
The sooner you get over the fact that the Empire is dead and stop being bitter that the ‘natives’ mostly have their independence, the happier you’ll be.
Ah the old “putting words into my mouth gambit”, a sign of desperation if ever I heard one.
Firstly all of the Irish who have chosen to rally round to attack my statements disagree with me.
All of them.
As to your other points
A typically bizarre Irish viewpoint about Brits mindsets
Up there with the British government and the British people are determined to hang on to the death to retain N.I.
Unfortunately untrue, it may make people in N.I. feel special, and it may make the Irish feel that they are top players in the world nation stakes because of the Brits unquenchable thirst for power on the island of Ireland , but as I say rather nonsensical to say the least.
The average Welsh person, Scot, Manxman, Channel Islander and English not only couldn’t care less about N.I. or the R.O.I. they probably hardly ever think of them from one decade to another; let alone one year to another.
If the majority population of N.I. decide that they wanted to unite with Eire tomorrow then the rest of the Brit population would say good luck to them and have no strong feelings about it one way or the other.
Some people like myself would positively welcome it.
As to the mourning the loss of empire ?
That always gives me a little chuckle.
I don’t personally have; or have had any sense of Empire, I think that Britain still had some colonies when I was a kid but I couldn’t tell you where they were.
If you ask a Brit kid about the Empire they’ll look at you bewilderdly.
And I suspect that is how all the other European nations feel about their empires, its ancient history.
Also may I dispel another urban myth that many Irish also seem to believe in.
British schools no longer teach the years and lengths of Kings reigns in history lessons, they didn’t when I was a kid and I’m a decrepit old git.
Lastly I see that you have’nt actually made any pertinent point in your post about any subject, much like in fact, all of the posts in this thread that have attacked me.
But if people disagree with me ergo I must be wrong I.Y.O.
The very fact that you and the other posters have been reduced to attacking me personally or doing the old "yes it is, no it isn’t "mambo suggest that you haven’t really got any sort of a case going for you at all, let alone a good one.
There is nothing on the island of Ireland that the Brits really want and hasn’t been for well over a half a century if not longer.
Live with it.
Yeah trying to what? Derail the thread? You’ve pretty much singlehandedly managed that.
Actually in post 9 I responded quite equably to the post before , mentioning that I was for a United island of Ireland but didn’t think that terrorism had helped that cause in any way and had in fact harmed the chances of it happenning in the near future.
I then had in reply a lot of genuine ranting, idolising liars, torturers, murderers and criminals posing as freedom fighters , and stories about sweet little grey haired old men receiving weekly non repayable loans from their Da’s.
The sweet little old man being one of the people organising the murders of civilians in no way connected to the conflict, either politically or militarily.
If anyone has derailed the thread its your friends.
I have only responded to their posts.
I was wondering why he cared about the 1919 Treaty–although he really didn’t say much about it. We know he’s an ex-soldier.
Perhaps he’s the Last Surviving Black & Tan.
And perhaps I’m not, just someone who disagrees with your views, which obviously makes me evil .
And STILL no valid point put forward.