What if basically all school class were based on ability, not age....

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m not sure what the technical terms are, but at the moment, kids generally go from one grade to the next based on their age, and their ability only sometimes affects things causing them to go into special classes - though they’d usually graduate at the same time. Or if they’re held back, they’d be held back in all of the subjects…
I think it would better if school worked very similar to university, and kids wouldn’t be allowed to do subjects unless they’d passed the prerequisite subjects. They’d be able to redo subjects as many times as they want, but those who have a history of failing could be given extra help. The gifted kids would be able to pass all of the requirements for school quickly and that would be it - if the gifted kids want to do anything extra they’d do it elsewhere - at university or read books at the library, etc. Since you wouldn’t need extra stuff to stop gifted kids from getting bored at school then school could be cheaper.
In university style education they basically teach things once, then a group tutor can answer questions of a group and quiz them… and then there are exams. This allows material to be covered much more quickly. If kids learn intently the first time, they’re rewarded - they get to graduate quicker - or if they want to pace out the course, they have more free time.
There could be subjects where people in your age group get together - e.g. physical education - and the purpose could partly be for socialization between people of your own age group. But for most other subjects I don’t think it is necessary to only have people of the same age group in them - I mean at some schools they deliberately have some “home classes” where highschool kids of different ages are brought together - and there’s the rolecall, etc.
Anyway, the system I’m talking about guarantees that all graduates have fulfilled ALL of the requirements - I mean you could make it so that you can’t graduate unless you’ve passed a certain level of maths, english, etc.

I emailed the lady in charge of the state’s education system about this a while ago (I did a more formal and organized proposal) but she thinks things are fine the way they are.

2

I had this exact epiphany just last week.

I think it would be a good idea. But then I thought, a lot of people wouldn’t be the same age… there’d probably be a lot of teasing, some kids would get big heads etc etc.

3

I agree. Most of grade school, IMO, is more about social development than learning the subject matter. Well, maybe not a majority, but enough that it’s important that kids be grouped together with others that they wouldn’t be teased relentlessly. I suppose if being grouped by ability was the norm there wouldn’t be as much of a reason to tease out of place kids, because they wouldn’t be out of place. Interesting to think about.

4

Montessori uses a similar approach. The idea is that you master a concept and then move on. Makes a lot of sense to me.

5

I went to an elementary (K-6th grade) school that did something like that. There were four “colonies”. Students passed on to the next colony based on abilities, not age. There were very few classrooms and most work was self-paced and much of it was done independently. Art, music and PE classes were held in the traditional ways, but most other subjects were flexible. At the beginning of each semester students meet with their teachers and set goals for the term, and had meetings at different points through the terms to evaluate how those goals were being met. At the end of each semester, if certain goals were met, the student could go on to the next colony.

The only bad parts for me were: I could read at age 4, so when I started at that school in 1st grade I was way ahead of my peers in that area. My teacher wanted me to go ahead to the second colony but I was much younger than any of the children in that group. I tried it on a trial basis but I missed my friends so I opted to stay back until the next year. So the rest of my first year at that school was quite boring. And if a student is in the fourth colony earlier than most, that could be boring too. For the most part it worked out so most students in each colony were in the same age brackets.

I attended this school back in the 70’s, and they are still doing it that way today. It is a popular school and many people choose to live in that area so their kids can attend that school. I thought it was cool because we didn’t have to sit in desks all day. With no classrooms they were pretty creative with seating options. We had really fun, interesting furniture to study on. I was afraid to move on to a regular junior high after 6th grade because I had never had to sit at a desk in a classroom before.

6

Exactly!

There is already a huge amount of teasing/bullying in school. And in my idea, kid’s paths wouldn’t cross very much since people would have different combinations of subjects (they might do english 3, maths 5, etc) which have different subject times. And if you needed extra help (due to you having a history of failing) - you’d be in a separate class anyway - probably with more supervision, and it is a bit hypocritical for people in that same class to tease each other.
And like I said, there could be lectures and separate tutorial/quiz classes. Kids who are disruptive could be kicked out - which would make it harder for the trouble-makers to pass - making it more likely for them to fall behind and become the group they’re teasing.
There could be something you learn at the previous school before you get into this proposed main school (which is a combination of upper elementary and high school) - is that besides teasing people about their race, religion, etc, you must not tease others about their intelligence since they can’t help it. (I guess you can tease lazy slackers though who are quite capable of studying and passing) - or tease them about physical disabilities, etc. (I’m not saying that people’s race and religion is as bad as severe disabilities or intelligence problems though…)

So there are some kids who get on Oprah for being genuises and apparently some young teens have attended universities. That problem already exists. I think it’s more productive than holding kids back because they’re too young to go ahead. In my system it mainly just matters whether you pass subjects or not. And also SAT’s are important. (your marks for your subjects aren’t important)

7

In the last post I’m not saying to tease people about their physical disabilities… my ordering was a bit messed up.

8

You are under the impression that the average modern school is about education and this will cause you endless frustration.

Simply put: Your system requires that the emphasis be placed on the individual and that’s not going to happen in a present-day factory model education system. We are more about social order and transitioning masses of compliant, non-questioning drones into the workforce than we are about nurturing academic potential.

Children are difficult to herd and can be best controlled by the fewest number of handlers when sorted into tightly compartmentalized, homogenous groups.

9

I just realized why a lot of my university lectures and classes seemed incredibly boring - I wasn’t sitting next to a good friend.
It seems there are 3 solutions

  1. somehow become good friends with the new fellow students
  2. don’t worry if you don’t become good friends with the new fellow students
  3. keep the same students together all the time since they’ve probably become good friends (the normal school system)

It sounds like the colonies lasted for about 2 years each… I’m talking about separate subjects, and if they were a semester or a term (1/4 year) long then the boredom problem mightn’t be very bad. In my idea, the lectures and tutorials/quizes would be optional, at least if you mostly pass subjects. There should be extensive information about the subject available so kids can just read about the whole subject in a booklet or on the internet.

Maybe lectures wouldn’t even be necessary - just assign readings of the books/info on the internet. The lack of lectures should eliminate a lot of boredom. There could be lectures on video tapes and CD-ROM that people could watch that could involve entertaining teachers and colourful graphics.

10

[QUOTE=Farmwoman]
You are under the impression that the average modern school is about education and this will cause you endless frustration.

There already is some emphasis placed on the individual - e.g. they might put kids into special classes, etc. My idea isn’t really about nurturing academic potential - it’s about making sure that students never graduate unless they meet a certain standard. (There could also be extra subjects if people want to get into certain university subjects.) It’s about quality control. When things are mass-produced and you don’t have quality control, customers get disappointed. It’s also about efficiency - another thing related to factories. I don’t see how my idea encourages kids to question things. Sure they can ask tutors what the “right” answer is, but in most subjects their own opinion is irrelevant (maths, english, etc). My system is also about compliance. i.e. you never graduate until you pass ALL of the right subjects. Simply getting too old isn’t good enough.

In my idea, the classes are more homogenous than traditional classes - if you’re talking about the content of the subject and the skill levels of the students. In traditional classes there are faster learners and slower learners. My sister is studying to be a teacher and has had some experience, and when taking a class she’s supposed to have some related tasks for the gifted kids to work on so they don’t get bored. She also has to keep in mind that some can barely understand what she’s talking about and try and keep them motivated. (in my idea those kids would be back in earlier subjects, with extra help)

11

I have two kids–a 13yo daughter who is very gifted academically, and a 10yo son who struggles to get through the basics.

Our daughter essentially taught herself to read when she was four. By the time she got into Kindergarten, she was reading at the third or fourth grade level, but she was a bit weak in math, mainly because it just wasn’t interesting to her. The school she went to (and where our son is now) actually does sort kids in grades K-3 into ability levels, so she was placed in a first-grade reading class, and a kindergarten-level math class. By the midpoint of the year, her math skills had caught up with her reading skills, and she was moved to another math class. When she started first grade, the school actually promoted her to second grade based on her abilities, and she was grouped with kids working mostly at third grad level. By fourth grade, she was in AP classes, and the teachers were very flexible about working with her to encourage her to continue learning at her own pace. When she started middle school in the sixth grade, she was placed in the AP classes, which essentially work a grade level ahead of the rest of the students, and she has done very well. She plans to attend a high school university program next year, where she will have more flexibility of what classes to take, and at what levels, and where age is less important than ability.

Our son has been successful in the same school, albeit with a lot more effort on his part and ours. He is hearing impaired, and has ADHD. He has a definite knack for math, in that he can look at a problem and know the answer almost immediately, but he has a hard time showing how he got to that answer. Reading and writing have been a huge struggle for him, and his third grade teacher tried to convince us to hold him back another year in third grade on the basis of his writing skills. However, he has been wildly successful in fourth grade, beyond anyone’s expectations. He is grouped with other kids with the same levels of abilities, but this has been true every year he’s been at the school. However, all of his teachers are extremely patient with him, and encouraged him to work just a little beyond his current ability levels.

This is a public school system, BTW, and the primary system in grades K-3 is used throughout the district, if not the state. However, I think that the teachers who work the system make more of a difference than the system itself. I think we have been fortunate to have teachers who were willing to help our daughter work above the level of the rest of the students in the class, as well as help our son learn the necessary skills to be successful at the next level.

12

Sorry, I must have been unclear.

Your system makes perfect sense if the primary objective of mass (public) education is student learning. I am suggesting that, despite our polite fiction regarding this topic, the objective of public education is social engineering and the production of easily-led social components. (sheople)

13

Basically, you’re suggesting that the public school system implement what many homeschooling parents do already - tailoring the curriculum to their childrens abilities and allowing them to spend as much or as little time on each topic as needed until mastering it.

I’m in total agreement with your suggestion, but doubt that the PS system has the ability (or motivation) to monitor 20-40 students working at 3-4 different levels on 7 subjects.

14

I’m not exactly sure what sort of system you are talking about. Are you talking about one like the one which existed when I was in high school, which still exists in some high schools here - you can’t take a course until you’ve passed the pre-requisite, and you can take it as soon as you’ve passed the pre-requisite, so that a math class normally taken by tenth graders may in fact contain ninth graders through twelfth graders? I’ve generally got no problem with that, except in unusual situations, such as if the 21 year old senior in my high school class had been in classes with 13 year old freshmen. Or are you talking about a more extensive system, where 13 year old’s who still can’t read are in a class with 6 year olds, and very advanced 6 year olds are in classes full of 15 year olds?

15

I don’t think there would be much to monitor. Say there were assessments every month, well the only thing about them that would matter is whether the student failed or if they even turned up to the assessment. If students fail or don’t show up for assessments you can just send them a letter in the mail if you’re too lazy. And they’d automatically have to repeat the subject, but have the option to go in the “special” class. BTW, I’m talking about a school of hundreds of students - not a classroom of 20-40 students. The kids of the same age group would be divided around the school and go to separate classrooms depending on the exact level of the subject. The tutors/lecturers would just be concerned with the kid’s performance in one particular subject rather than in other subjects.

16

Farmwoman:
In the graduation requirements you could have whatever subjects you want… e.g. learning how to do the goosestep for hours or whatever…

17

Actually, they used to do something very like this. In each grade there were several different classes, based more or less on academic ability. This seemed to work very well, but today they call it “tracking” and it is regarded as a Very Bad Thing.

18

That pedophilia-type problem is quite annoying. If it wasn’t for that, then you could have illiterate adults doing the classes with the kids. But maybe in “preschool” (which would in fact last until the age of maybe 8 until the kids are somewhat literate and responsible) the kids could be educated about older people taking advantage of them, and what to do, etc.

Yeah. Though the class with 15 year olds would likely have an age distribution like a bell curve… with lots of 14 and 16 year olds, and some 13 year olds, and a couple 12 year olds…
The young genius would normally have to take all the subjects that they may already know… (it would be possible to speed things up by letting the genius take many tests/exams in a row, but it is less trouble to get them to wait and do the exams with the others, even though they might already know the subject and the subject ahead of it - the subjects move at a face pace like university subjects do, so if you passed them all the first time you could maybe finish upper elementary and high school in 4 years)

19

I’d say that grading a student (with an “A” or “C”, etc) is tracking…
BTW, what do you mean by the different classes? Do some learn the exact same material from the following year? (that’s what I’m talking about) Or is the material taught the same, but the teaching style different? Or is there some bonus material in the advanced classes that isn’t going to be on the test? (or maybe it is on the test, but those in the lower classes wouldn’t even learn about it)

20

I actually wasn’t even thinking about pedophilia- I was thinking more about a more generalized influence. In my experience, the younger kids in a group try to “fit in” with the older kids, not the other way around , and to a great extent, kids make friends among their school mates. Not a big issue if the age range of the group is 2 years or so. might be a much bigger issue if a 6 year old sees his 14 year old classmates cutting class, or a 13 year old ends up drinking with his 17 year old classmates.