Thanks for the cite. I wish I were more adept at finding specific passages. But Jesus continues:
My interpretation is that he isn’t refering to warfare, but rather he comes to overturn the status quo and he challenges us to put God before all things and the examples he cites show just how difficult that is.
Well, I know one thing, the well know crucifix image wouldn’t exist as it does today.
Here’s what I think we’d see instead of Christ on the cross.
This thread seems to place all the credit/blame for Christianity on Jesus. How about asking “What if Paul had stayed home and never gone to Damascus?” That would have meant the followers of Jesus would have only been some small Jewish sect that we probably would have no records of because it was extinguished during the Jewish rebellion. ;j
-winces- I’m not sure “blame” is the most fair word to use.
We are assuming that what we read is accurate. Assuming that it is, then many events and participants helped create the entire scenario.
What if John wasn’t fond of bathing? 
How bout instead of typing this forum just read the “jesus papers” “angels & demons” “The Davinci code”
READ EM ALL
I think if Jesus had not been crucified, the New Testament would end, not with the book of Revelation, but with the words “and they all lived happily ever after.” 
I came in here to recommend that book. Really good reading.
Let’s see what I remember: Jesus dies of old age on Easter Sunday. Christianity is still founded on his teachings, and there is a small sect that say Jesus rose from the dead three days after his death. They are subsequently stoned.
As I understand it,Jesus was predestined to die as he supposedly did.
John 17 verse 12,“Those whom thou hast given me I guarded:and not one of them perished except the son of Perdition(Judas) In order that the Scripture might be fulfilled”
If one excepts this, then Judas was meant to betray Jesus so he could be crucified, as that was the main use of the death penality at that time.
JOHN 19 v24 also refers to the things being done so the scriptures would be fulfilled.
Monavis
I think that if Jesus hadn’t died in the cross, he would’ve continued his pacifist teachings, and his followers would’ve grown, something that would bother the romans. Eventually, since Jesus preached love and not war, some internal movement within his followers would’ve begun, led by some leader who preached to take Jesus’ word and be more proactive. This would’ve eventually led to a revolution against the romans and a lot of bloodshed.
Evertually, when the dust settled, the romans would probably take this opportunity to kill Jesus, although not in such a public manner. He’s still be a martyr, though.
These books are all, as are the posts in this thread, hypothetical works of fiction, and I like to read our Dopers’ posts as much as Dan Brown’s latest. Why can’t we speculate as well?
Incidentally, The Da Vinci Code is not about Jesus not dying; it’s about him siring children with Mary Magdalene and the possibility of a semi-divine bloodline interlinked with the history of the Holy Grail.
IMHO, YMMV, etc etc: It’s interesting to note that Jesus’s sacrifice doesn’t make up the core tenet of Christianity. It certainly makes a very dramatic emphasis on the point, but I think the essential belief would’ve remained: we are all sinners, but faith in Jesus and his teachings, and that he is the son of God, will bring us to heaven.
