What if someone wanted a "Race-Reconstructive surgery"?

The thing is, to a great extent “I identify with X race” also means “I identify with X culture” and while not all cultures are equally accepting of newcomers, in today’s world you have people like Father Michael Pfleger of Chicago who, although very clearly of white ancestry is culturally and socially more “black”, specifically black urban American, than some people of African descent. Although Father Pfleger makes no effort to change his appearance. So people who “identify” with a race and/or culture have some ability to adopt or be adopted by that group without requiring surgery and be more accepted than, say, post-surgical transsexual people who face enormous discrimination and risk no matter how well they “pass”. So being “trans-racial” is not the same thing in our world as being trans-gender.

Another thing I would argue is that if a particular ethnic group enjoys enormous advantages in society then maximizing your resemblance to that group is not entirely irrational. All those light-skinned black people who managed to pass as white over the years in the US enjoyed much greater economic, educational, and personal safety advantages - if they weren’t caught. Gaining those advantages is not irrational. What you do to achieve those ends might be risky or irrational, but seeking them is not. So, another difference at least with some “trans-racial” people vs. the trans-gender.

Based on the articles I have read, it appears to be the latter.

I’ll definitely bring it up if I find evidence to the contrary.

Wait, what? :confused:

I don’t know if this was directed towards me or not. Incase it was, I would NEVER trivialize those who want to have sexual reassignment surgery. I know there’s a world of difference between the two. I actually thought of it for two reasons:

  1. Because some musician recently got criticized for appearing lighter skin not too long ago, and…

  2. **‘Tropic Thunder’s’ **been on my mind lately.

I never knew of anyone who’s wanted anything remotely like this, and wondered if such a person could exist for whatever reasons.

I also wanted to know what people might think about it if it were to ever occur. On one hand, I believe one should be able anything they want with their body so long as they aren’t hurting anyone, on the other hand, you can’t/don’t adopt someone else’s heritage.

So… yeah.

Reminds me of an Arthur C. Clarke short story in which approaching aliens explain that Earth is actually a lost colony whose population succumbed to a disfiguring condition and reverted to a pre-civilized state in the resulting panic.

The story ends with the broadcast of a bit of good news:

“If any of you are still white, we can cure you.”

At least I don’t know if you can.

I also sounded mean in that last message Czarcasm, I don’t know if your post was directed towards me. Even if it was, I can understand where you’re coming from… I knew enough to say I’m not comparing the two, because I knew people would rightfully be wondering if I’m asking to “trivialize” sexual reassignment surgery.

“African American” is a culture, or cultures, distinct from those of other African diaspora. There are also differences between rural black Americans and inner-city urban black Americans.

Thus, a white person raised in an inner city area that is predominantly black who adopts the speech, mannerisms, customs, and other features of that culture may be more “black” than, say, an Afro-Brit (British person of African descent, in case that wasn’t clear) despite the “mis-match” in skin color. Or, in the case of Father Pfleger, a white man who adopts the culture of his parish, which is overwhelmingly inner-city African-American culturally closer to those people, even if not genetically so, than someone of African descent who grew up in a different culture. Arguably, Eminem is another race-shifted person. Fiona Graham, an Australian of European descent who became a Japanese geisha might qualify as another “trans-racial” person. Since there’s no real definition of the concept trying to pinpoint such people can be difficult, not to mention there are probably a lot of people out there who would qualify but aren’t famous or promoted.

Which is the whole point that “race” is at least as much culture as genetics. It also gets into stupid, hurtful terms like “oreo” or “banana” used in reference to people who identify, or are believed to identify, more with “white” (that is, Euro-descent) culture than the one expected at first glance at their skin color or features.

To which I still say, “wait, what?”

Pfleger has not “adopted the culture” of his parish. He’s created it. He’s created it as a person holding the privilege of a White man who can talk in front of the cameras that turn off when Black men speak. He rails against the culture of violence, he’s defaced signs advertising the culture’s liquor and tobacco stores. He’s raised funds to display billboards decrying rap artists. He doesn’t dress “Black”, he doesn’t speak “Black”, he doesn’t, as far as I know, identify as Black in any way. Just because he works closely with Black people and considers himself part of that *community *doesn’t mean he’s part of their culture.

Eminem is a better example…except that he’s a performer. So is he really “adopting their culture” or is he appropriating their culture to sell records?

Er… wait, what? Railing against violence is somehow not black? You think there isn’t a temperance component to black culture? You think rap and hip-hop are universally loved by black people?

But yeah - I get your arguments and really, the only people who can say Pfleger is or isn’t part of a community or culture are the members of that community or culture.

He grew up in Detroit and yes, probably is authentically part of that culture. Of course, being white in a predominantly black area of the arts has an effect but in his case I don’t think there’s an appropriation going on. Again, though, only those in that community/culture can say with authority whether he’s part of it or not.

Please don’t put words in my mouth.

Gun violence, alcohol, tobacco, and misogynist violent materialistic rap music are all parts of - not the sum of, but parts of - the culture in Auburn Gresham. He’s taken a lot of heat for his work, and been accused more than once of colonialist attitudes and tactics by people who are of the culture. I happen to support his work, but he is very much leading from a place of privilege, not assimilating into the culture.

Not a hill I want to die on, he was just the first example that came to mind. You may well have more information about this case than I do.